F-35B (Non-US) Pocket Carriers

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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spazsinbad

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Unread post05 Oct 2012, 09:24

For a start Australia is not looking for a 3rd or any other flat deck ship for the time being. So in my book any thing goes. Best if Australia is going to operate F-35Bs (and this is not planned either) then a purpose designed for F-35Bs flat deck ship is best with a running mate also. However first things first. For the RAN and ADF in general the introduction of the two LHDs is a really big deal game changer. It will take some time to adjust. After that - who knows. Australia has a population of around 22 million with an huge land mass and sea boundaries with associated islands and waterways to patrol. We take it all one step at a time; unless of course the local environment changes dramatically.
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“...the Australian Defence Force's primary operating environment extends from the eastern approaches of the Indian Ocean to the island states of Polynesia and from the equator to the Southern Ocean.

"This area encompasses 25,000 islands, 85,000km of navigable waterways....”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nationa ... 6277605880
Last edited by spazsinbad on 05 Oct 2012, 19:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post05 Oct 2012, 10:03

spazsinbad wrote:For a start Australia is not looking for a 3rd or any other flat deck ship for the time being. So in my book any thing goes. Best if Australia is going to operate F-35Bs (and this is not planned either) then a purpose designed for F-35Bs flat deck ship is best with a running mate also. However first things first. For the RAN and ADF in general the introduction of the two LHDs is a really big deal game changer. It will take some time to adjust. After that - who knows. Australia has a population of around 22 million with an huge land mass and sea boundaries with associated islands and waterways to patrol. We take it all one step at a time; unless of course the local environment changes dramatically.


The Canberras will be great for what Oz wants them to do, namely, moving lots of *stuff* from place to place. As for purpose designed Bee carriers, that's a heady prospect, especially since Japan, Korea, and Oz haven't seen the obvious advantages of cooperation in ship construction and design. You Westpacs need to work together more.
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Unread post05 Oct 2012, 10:24

We can't wait to have you organise us all.
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Unread post05 Oct 2012, 10:53

spazsinbad wrote:We can't wait to have you organise us all.


Indeed you can't. You need to do it yourselves... for yourselves. China would be a lot easier to control if the 3-y'all weren't always quibbling over whales and barren rocks. Oz has the material, Japan has the tech, Korea has the yards; figure something out.

Perhaps something along the lines of Italy's Cavour (which the 22DDH kinda is) would work. 4-6 such ships in the Pacific along with 6 American CVNs (and a few gators) would be a real headache for the PLAN to keep up with.
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Unread post05 Oct 2012, 12:37

Oz is not quibbling over barren rocks in mid oceans. If you read SLDinfo we will be motivated by a rotating bunch of Marines that sometimes will demonstrate F-35Bs from 'end of the line' LHAs. Wot a Bleedin' Liberty! We will get the message.

By the by, I see only another shipbuilder and Oz sorting out what needs to be built for an F-35B specific flat deck. We buy stuff from all over.
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Unread post05 Oct 2012, 13:16

spazsinbad wrote:...we will be motivated by a rotating bunch of Marines that sometimes will demonstrate F-35Bs from 'end of the line' LHAs.


As might the others, hopefully... (sorry about the gross oversimplification of Japanese/Korean/Australian relations)

I also wonder if that would motivate a few countries West of Suez. Some of the Baltic/North Sea nations were rather upset when France agreed to sell amphibs to Russia. Even Canida might need to start re-thinking its naval strategy with the arctic melting.

Basically, I'm hoping the F-35B will make the USNs job easier by making it less-expensive for others to do at least some of the work.

BTW, how are the Canberras coming? I know one of the hulls is floating, but that's about it.
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Unread post05 Oct 2012, 15:35

IIRC,,some people,have questioned the ability of the F-35B to operate West of,Suez..LOL
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Unread post05 Oct 2012, 18:01

The first in class is on the way to Australia aboard another vessel. Yeah East of Sewers and Beyond the Black Stump is really dangerous for Ozian Vessels, that is why we won't see CVFs out here dununder but perhaps the odd LHA every now and then. :twisted:

Australia’s Newest Helicopter Carrier Slowly Making Its Way Down Under September 15, 2012

http://shipwreckology.com/2012/09/15/au ... own-under/

http://shipwreckology.files.wordpress.c ... nberra.jpg
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LHD 01 Departs Spain, Australia Bound
By Australian Department of Defence on Wednesday, August 22nd, 2012

http://www.defencetalk.com/lhd-01-depar ... und-44290/
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Unread post05 Oct 2012, 19:36

spazsinbad wrote:The first in class is on the way to Australia aboard another vessel


Spaz, it's just killing me to look at that beautiful ship. What the hell is Oz thinking? For God's sake, it has a ski-jump, you're already a partner in the F-35 program... WHY'S IT SO DAMNED HARD TO TAKE THE NEXT LOGICAL STEP?!
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Unread post05 Oct 2012, 19:45

This issue has been done to death on the very long thread. Back in 1984 RAN FAA Fixed Wing died, a few years earlier our only aircraft carrier HMAS Melbourne was scrapped. Resurrecting a fixed wing flat deck capacity for the RAN will take more than 'why is it so damned hard' exclamations. Be patient grasshopper! :D
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Unread post05 Oct 2012, 19:55

1st503rdsgt wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:...TO TAKE THE NEXT LOGICAL STEP?!


I think he has intimated it is that crawl, stand, walk, run thing! :)

As frustrating as it is, we all had to do it!
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Unread post05 Oct 2012, 20:05

See:
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Unread post05 Oct 2012, 21:24

Both this and the remarkably long thread on the ADF LHDs have some interesting comments. Spaz, your source on the internal configuration of the ships is incorrect, as the mods are very minimal. The biggest was to the sickbay, and there was/is no degradation of aviation support spaces in any compartments. Modifying them for F-35Bs would be a minor matter, done during scheduled refit without excessive time considerations. Re-establishing embarked fixed wing, however, would require long lead times. Finally, I have no idea whatever of where your comments about the RN CVFs being denied to the ADF came from, nor that they will never deploy east of Suez. Your first point would raise innumerable eyebrows at Russell Hill, I assure you. Also, the old Invincibles in Sea Harrier days visited Australia six times, and they did all sorts of noisy work in the Gulf, and there is no reason to think that the new ships won't follow that pattern. All said and done, there is no consideration at any level in Canberra for even thinking about putting fast air back to sea in the ADF, let alone asking for a position paper, or, indeed anything else.
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Unread post05 Oct 2012, 21:27

spazsinbad wrote:This issue has been done to death on the very long thread. Back in 1984 RAN FAA Fixed Wing died, a few years earlier our only aircraft carrier HMAS Melbourne was scrapped. Resurrecting a fixed wing flat deck capacity for the RAN will take more than 'why is it so damned hard' exclamations. Be patient grasshopper! :D


Yeah, I know... but I still find the Western-Pacific's carrier situation frustrating. I just don't see why the USN has to (for the foreseeable future) provide all the non-Chinese naval airpower in the area when there are plenty of other countries with the economic wherewithal to support at least one F-35B carrier and task force.
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Unread post05 Oct 2012, 21:53

exheadshedguy wrote:All said and done, there is no consideration at any level in Canberra for even thinking about putting fast air back to sea in the ADF, let alone asking for a position paper, or, indeed anything else.


In that case, I'm curious as to why the Spanish design was selected over the Mistral class, which is a good deal cheaper and has all the capabilities you intend to use.
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