F-35B (Non-US) Pocket Carriers

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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nutshell

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Unread post24 Sep 2017, 23:04

[quote="steve2267"launched off a Ford-class via EMALS. Unfortunately, he did say Nimitz-class.[/quote]

In that case, instead of a VW it shoud've been a Chevy. A Camaro ofc.

...shots fired?
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neptune

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Unread post26 Dec 2017, 19:45

https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia ... -fighters/

Japan, South Korea may refit naval ships for F-35 fighters

By: Mike Yeo  
26Dec17

MELBOURNE, Australia —
Amid growing tensions in the region, both Japan and South Korea are reportedly investigating options to operate the Lockheed-Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter on board their respective ships. Quoting reports from unnamed military sources in their respective countries, Japan’s Kyodo news agency and South Korea’s Yonhap said that the short take-off vertical landing, or STOVL F-35B variant is being considered for operations from Japan’s Izumo-class DDH helicopter destroyer and South Korea’s Dokdo-class amphibious assault ship, turning them into combat-capable aircraft carriers. Kyodo’s also reported that the F-35Bs could be used to defend Japan’s far flung southwestern islands, which lack long runways needed for conventional fighter jets to operate.

That strategy is being considered in response to North Korea’s ballistic missile and nuclear capabilities, as well as China’s rapid military modernization, Asked about the reports at a media conference on Tuesday, Japanese defense minister Itsunori Onodera repeatedly denied any plans to modify the Izumo-class to operate F-35Bs, only going as far as saying the ministry is constantly “conducting various studies evaluating Japan’s defense capability.” Modification of the ships to operate the F-35B will enhance flexibility and expand the range of missions, with Yonhap quoting a source as saying that the South Korean military is looking at “maximizing the strategic value of the vessel’s capabilities.” The ships can carry several helicopters during normal operations, with the Izumo and Dokdo class designed to carry a maximum of 14 and 10 helicopters respectively. Both ship classes will however need to be modified extensively internally and externally to operate the F-35B, including the application of a thermally protective coating on areas of the flight deck to withstand hot exhaust gases during F-35B vertical landings, and possibly even reshaping the flight deck to allow rolling takeoffs. They will also need to have the ammunition magazines hardened and enlarged to accommodate the F-35B’s weapons, while aviation fuel storage facilities will also likely need to be expanded to account for higher fuel consumption compared to helicopters.

Reuters has suggested that a ski-jump may be fitted to the Izumo as part of any modification program for the F-35B, however with the Izumo-class being 248 meters long and the Dokdo 199 meters, both already have flight decks long enough for the F-35B to carry out rolling takeoffs — no ski-jump needed. Both Japan and South Korea have a single Izumo and Dokdo-class ship in service, with another ship of each class being constructed. The two countries are also operators of the F-35A conventional take off and landing version, with Japan and South Korea having 42 and 40 F-35As on order respectively.

The possession of aircraft carriers by Japan will be a significant shift in its defense posture and is likely to be a contentious issue, with critics likely to point to Japan’s pacifist constitution banning the country from acquiring what is referred to as “war potential.” But Corey Wallace, an Einstein postdoctoral fellow in the Graduate School of East Asian Studies at Berlin’s Freie Universitat wrote in the East Asia Forum that Japan’s constitution does not explicitly ban specific capabilities — offensive or otherwise. Rather, its government interprets ‘war potential’ as referring to the total strength of Japan’s Self-Defense Forces relative to potential threats and international conditions, and not whether a given capability is mostly offensive or defensive.
:)
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Unread post27 Dec 2017, 00:08

It would make more sense for Japan to just construct a carrier than to modify that helicopter "destroyer."
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blindpilot

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Unread post27 Dec 2017, 00:14

neptune wrote:... Both ship classes will however need to be modified extensively internally and externally to operate the F-35B, including the application of a thermally protective coating on areas of the flight deck to withstand hot exhaust gases during F-35B vertical landings, ...
:)


This never ceases to amuse me that journalist are so obsessed with melting decks, that aren't going to melt. By far and away, the deck coating is the easiest modification to make. It's the infrastructure design changes that would be the most work.

But hey! Melting decks are exciting! Aaargh!

MHO,
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Unread post27 Dec 2017, 00:38

Some journos have to carry on in memory of BillieBobBoySweetiePie and his melting deck/pizza oven concrete scenarios.
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zerion

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Unread post27 Dec 2017, 01:07

Long article

China upset at Japan’s plan to buy F-35B stealth fighter ‘jump jets’ for its helicopter carriers

CHINA has warned another nation not to convert its warships into F-35 stealth fighter carriers — ot it will revive the dark days of WWII...

http://www.news.com.au/technology/innov ... f0ddb7f671
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neptune

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Unread post27 Dec 2017, 01:19

zerion wrote:Long article

China upset at Japan’s plan to buy F-35B stealth fighter ‘jump jets’ for its helicopter carriers

CHINA has warned another nation not to convert its warships into F-35 stealth fighter carriers — ot it will revive the dark days of WWII...

http://www.news.com.au/technology/innov ... f0ddb7f671


....darn! warning others while building "inexpensive" islands (targets) that don't move must be frustrating!

:bang:
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Unread post27 Dec 2017, 06:58

A good start upon which Australia could follow n'est-ce pas? But no - they'll drag their friggin' feet to the inevitable FIRE! :doh:
Making Izumo an aircraft carrier would boost alliance
26 Dec 2017 Kenta Kamimura/Yomiuri Shimbun

"The government’s latest move to mull remodeling the Izumo, the largest-class destroyer of the Maritime Self-Defense Force, into an aircraft carrier highlights its aim to further strengthen Japan-U.S. cooperation by utilizing a new vessel amid mounting tension surrounding North Korea....

...The government plans to temporarily use a remodeled Izumo as a refueling base mainly for F-35B fighter jets deployed by the U.S. military for operations to defend Japan, according to sources. [THIS IS THE IDEA!]

Under the security-related laws that took effect in March 2016, the Self-Defense Forces and the U.S. military have unified more of their operations. In May, the Izumo and other MSDF destroyers conducted “U.S. military ship protection” measures — operations in which a Japanese vessel defends a U.S. supply ship in peacetime.... [FLEET DEFENCE BABY!]

...Within the government, there also is a future plan for the ASDF to have F-35B jets as carrier-based planes....

...the government intends to gain public acceptance by limiting the attack capabilities of a remodeled Izumo and using it for the purpose of defending remote islands and protecting MSDF vessels...." [YOU GO GIRL!]

Source: http://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0004148553
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weasel1962

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Unread post27 Dec 2017, 08:38

Japan is not just looking at the F-35Bs for its amphs. Its also about the Okinawa chain of islands.
http://news.abs-cbn.com/overseas/12/25/ ... b-fighters

It was 5 1/2 years since I last mentioned the chain of islands as a potential staging ground to counter China
http://www.china-defense.com/smf/index. ... c=4160.340

As the above link may not be accessed except by members, I repost the runway list that can potentially be used by F-35Bs.

Table: runways sorted by distance to Taiwan

Airport Runway details Coordinates Apron size Deployment Distance to Taiwan
Yonaguni 1 runway 2,000m long, 45m wide, class C 24028'03"N, 122058'47"E 10,200 m2 sqn size 150km to Keelung
Hateruma 1 runway 1,500m long, 45m wide, class H 24003'30"N , 123048'14"E 22,038 m2 sqn size 242km to Keelung
Ishigaki 1 runway 1,500m long, 45m wide, class D 24020'41"N , 124011'13"E 22,038 m2 sqn size 267km to Keelung
Tarama 1 runway 1,500m long, 45m wide, class D 24038'13.7"N, 124040'31.6"E 7,700 m2 sqn size 313km to Keelung
Shimojishima 1 runway 3,000m long, 30m wide, class A 24049'36"N, 125008'41"E 129,200 m2 Multiple sqn 350km to Keelung
Hirara 1 runway 2,000m long, 45m wide, 149 ft high, class C 24046'58"N , 127017'42"E 27,500 m2 sqn size 367km to Keelung
Kumejima 1 runway 2,000m long, 45m wide, class C 26021'49"N, 126042'50"E 19,800 m2 sqn size 533km to Keelung
Kerama 1 runway 800m long, 25m wide, class H 26010'06"N , 127017'36"E 3,000 m2 1/2 sqn size 579km to Keelung
Aguni 1 runway 800m long, 25m wide, class H 26035'34"N , 127014'25"E 2,000 m2 1/2 sqn size 583km to Keelung
Iejima 1 runway 1,500m long, 45m wide, class D 26043'21"N , 127047'13"E 7,700 m2 sqn size 642km to Keelung
Yoron 1 runway 1,200m long, 14m high 27002'38"N , 128024'06"E ~8,500 m2 sqn size 717km to Keelung
Okinoerabu 1 runway 1,350m long, 27m high 27025'54"N , 128042'20"E ~12,000 m2 sqn size 754km to Keelung
Tokunoshima 1 runway 2,000m long, 2m high 27050'11"N , 128052'53"E ~10,800 m2 sqn size 792km to Keelung
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Unread post27 Dec 2017, 10:00

spazsinbad wrote:A good start upon which Australia could follow n'est-ce pas? But no - they'll drag their friggin' feet to the inevitable FIRE! :doh:
Making Izumo an aircraft carrier would boost alliance
26 Dec 2017 Kenta Kamimura/Yomiuri Shimbun

"The government’s latest move to mull remodeling the Izumo, the largest-class destroyer of the Maritime Self-Defense Force, into an aircraft carrier highlights its aim to further strengthen Japan-U.S. cooperation by utilizing a new vessel amid mounting tension surrounding North Korea....

...The government plans to temporarily use a remodeled Izumo as a refueling base mainly for F-35B fighter jets deployed by the U.S. military for operations to defend Japan, according to sources. [THIS IS THE IDEA!]

Under the security-related laws that took effect in March 2016, the Self-Defense Forces and the U.S. military have unified more of their operations. In May, the Izumo and other MSDF destroyers conducted “U.S. military ship protection” measures — operations in which a Japanese vessel defends a U.S. supply ship in peacetime.... [FLEET DEFENCE BABY!]

...Within the government, there also is a future plan for the ASDF to have F-35B jets as carrier-based planes....

...the government intends to gain public acceptance by limiting the attack capabilities of a remodeled Izumo and using it for the purpose of defending remote islands and protecting MSDF vessels...." [YOU GO GIRL!]

Source: http://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0004148553


I think when Spain and Turkey start operating F-35B's from their BPE's. Then we will see a change of heart from the Australian Government....."IMHO"
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Unread post27 Dec 2017, 13:09

It's only a matter of time before Japan decides to build full scale aircraft carriers. With American help Japan could build ships at least the size of the QE-IIs with Cats and Traps. Japan and the USN would then be the sole operators of the F-35C. With two carriers with 36 F-35Cs each Japan would buy about 90. The C model the most expensive because it will be the least produced. I think the plan is for the USN, and Marines to buy 340 Cs, Adding 90 for a Japanese order should cut the cost considerable.
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Unread post27 Dec 2017, 13:44

USN buys 260 F-35Cs whilst USMC (by new amended agreement) buy 67 F-35Cs (2015 plan) for a total of tadah 327 F-35Cs.
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Unread post27 Dec 2017, 16:55

spazsinbad wrote:USN buys 260 F-35Cs whilst USMC (by new amended agreement) buy 67 F-35Cs (2015 plan) for a total of tadah 327 F-35Cs.


Yeah, there was that whole
"680 divided by 2, half B and C, but plus 13 B minus 13 C's, but Congress gave us 13 extra anyway is 693, divided by two but we don't want that so add 26 and subtract ...... doh... HOW MANY ARE WE GETTING AGAIN?!!!!!" circus.

And I still don't know how many B's and C's they really think they'll get in the end, but I bet it isn't what they say now .... All I know is the Marines want them to buy as many Bee's, as fast as possible, and then they will say stop when they don't have any broken down F-18/AV-8's left. Program of record, smecord I say.

:shock: :shock: :bang:

BP
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Unread post27 Dec 2017, 18:42

Heheh. I understand the frustration however I see it as simple and see you making it complicated unnecessarily. The USMC Aviation Plan of 2015 had the simple answer to the F-35C change. Later the USMC asked for & received extra F-35Bs. OK?

Rather than just repeat the old numbers it is best to be up to date with the new ones. When future numbers change then?
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Unread post27 Dec 2017, 19:07

China is taking the Japanese 'F-35Bs on Japanese Flat Decks' trial balloon seriously - but they would - wouldn't they. :doh:
China urges Japan to ‘act cautiously’ on considerations to refit Izumo class for F-35Bs
27 Dec 2017 Ridzwan Rahmat

"Key Points
• Beijing has issued strong remarks amid news that Tokyo is considering F-35B fighters for its helicopter carriers
• Japan’s defence minister has downplayed reports but the strongly worded statement from Beijing sheds more light on Chinese sentiments over the STOVL aircraft

Amid reports that the Japan Maritime Self Defense Force (JMSDF) is considering to refit its fleet of Izumo-class helicopter carriers to carry F-35B fighter aircraft, Beijing has called on Tokyo to ‘act cautiously’ with regards to military matters...."

Source: http://www.janes.com/article/76659/chin ... for-f-35bs
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