Patuxent River Ski Jump Video (No F-35Bs on it)

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spazsinbad

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Unread post09 Aug 2017, 19:43

It is obvious to me that there are 'ski jump testing excerpt' articles scattered elsewhere but this is all SKI JUMPY! :roll:
F-35B Loads Up for Ski Jump Testing
27 Jul 2017 Jeff Babione

"... At Pax River, the team is doing just that as they began another round of ski jump testing for the F-35B. For this second phase of F-35B ski jump testing, the intention is to expand acceptable wind envelopes and maximum gross weight capability, including carriage of external stores. This will provide the fleet with the capability to carry heavy store configurations in a wider range of weather conditions while operating on board the Queen Elizabeth Class Carriers, which will begin initial trials with the F-35B next year. So far, the jet has handled the heavier loads well and the plan is to progress through the rest of the testing including symmetric and asymmetric loadouts while carrying external GBU-12s, Paveway IV bombs, AIM-9X and AIM-132 missiles."

Source: https://a855196877272cb14560-2a4fa819a6 ... _27_17.pdf (0.2Mb)
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F-35BloadedSkiJump pax1ed.jpg
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post14 Aug 2017, 20:16

Video cited by 'doge' thnx in the 'MoD Muddle' thread so here is the article that goes with it but not much new said really:

VIDEO: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=15969&p=373739&hilit=phase#p373739

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/f-35b-p ... -continue/ 14 Aug 2017
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post15 Aug 2017, 15:31

Another reiteration of the ski jump story with the added bonus as noted.
UK launches externally loaded F-35B from 'ski jump' for first time
13 Aug 2017 Gareth Jennings

"...This test at Naval Air Station (NAS) Patuxent River in Maryland is part of a wider campaign to validate for the F-35B the ‘ski-jump’ launch technique that was first developed by the United Kingdom to launch its Sea Harrier jets from the decks of through-deck cruise carriers in the late 1970s. This method enables the aircraft to take off with more fuel and/or weapons, and provides an extra safety margin compared with the US Marine Corps’ (USMC) system of launching from a flat deck. This is especially true during rough seas, when the ship will be pitching up and down...."

Source: http://www.janes.com/article/73080/uk-l ... first-time
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post15 Aug 2017, 20:18

spazsinbad wrote:Another reiteration of the ski jump story with the added bonus as noted.
UK launches externally loaded F-35B from 'ski jump' for first time
13 Aug 2017 Gareth Jennings

"...This test at Naval Air Station (NAS) Patuxent River in Maryland is part of a wider campaign to validate for the F-35B the ‘ski-jump’ launch technique that was first developed by the United Kingdom to launch its Sea Harrier jets from the decks of through-deck cruise carriers in the late 1970s. This method enables the aircraft to take off with more fuel and/or weapons, and provides an extra safety margin compared with the US Marine Corps’ (USMC) system of launching from a flat deck. This is especially true during rough seas, when the ship will be pitching up and down...."

Source: http://www.janes.com/article/73080/uk-l ... first-time


I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere's heresabouts... but I'm gonna ask here anyway...

Once USMC pilots have cross-deployed on HMS Queen Elizabeth II, if they come home raving about the ramp... is there any possibility that ramp's could be retrofitted to the America-class LHAs? Or has that ship sailed? (I understand that the addition of a ramp takes away space for helo ops. For all I know, it messes with forward deck parking on the starboard side as well.)
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, add dollop of F-117 & gob of F-22, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well, then bake. Whaddya get? An F-35.
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Unread post15 Aug 2017, 21:51

USMC Hairier Pilots have returned from CVS deployment (there is a story in one of the threads) 'raving' about the ski jump. A respected Hairier Test Pilot has raved in print about same and has tested the ski jumps on Italian Carriers and written papers about the usefulness of ski jumps - to no avail. He even pointed out that the initial ski jump slope would not prevent a helo from using the spot on that slight initial slope. This thing 'USMC Ski Jumps' has been discussed a lot over the years here with the unofficial response (whether true or not) that helo spots are key requirements for the flat decks. No one has ever cited an official USMC response to non use of ski jumps - perhaps the USN doesn't like them either. Obviously there are no USMC ski jumps on the foreseeable horizon. Given the non-requirement one could only speculate HOW a ski jump would be fitted. Build it and they will use it - don't build it and they won't. Art Nalls (still flying civilian See Hairiers today in USofA) was the USMC test pilot so searching F-35 forum on Nalls etc will be useful.

Quote below and many other quotes and bits of info about ski jumps are in PDFs scattered in this forum so they may be found by searching or following the link at the btm of this post and then look in the folders at the two web sites on offer.

An 11Mb 152 PDF will be attached from folder: https://onedrive.live.com/?id=CBCD63D63 ... D6340707E6

USEful Art Nalls recent biography details here: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=14082&p=176316&hilit=Nalls#p176316
Run & Jump!
Winter 2014 The Kneeboard; Patuxent River Naval Air Museum Association

"...The Marine Corps tested an instrumented AV-8B Harrier II on the Spanish aircraft carrier Príncipe de Asturias (R-11) in December 1988 [just recently taken to the Turkish Knackery - see recent photo below of the start of the sad journey from Ferrol]. Then-Major Art Nalls, USMC, reported a Harrier at its maximum weight could takeoff in 400 feet instead of 750 feet on a flat deck...."

Source: http://tinyurl.com/nw47v36 (PDF 1Mb)

STOVL Air Power | The Ramps, Roads, and Speedbumps to Exploiting Maneuver Air Warfare
01 Apr 1996 Major Charles R. Myers USMC

Amphibious Ships Page 7
The most significant contribution that the Navy could make to STOVL air and helicopter-borne power projection is adding a ramp (ski jump) to all Tarawa- and Wasp-class amphibious assault ships. The technology is proven and for return on investment relatively inexpensive. A ramp not only improves dramatically a STOVL aircraft's takeoff performance, it facilitates concurrent fixed- and rotary-wing operations afloat. Of all countries that operate STOVL aircraft (the United States has more STOVL aircraft and ships to employ them than anyone) the United States is the only country without a ramp-equipped STOVL assault ship. Now is the time for ramps....”

& on page 9: “...The skeptics insist that ramps will displace landing spots. Tests prove otherwise. On a 12 degree ski jump approximately 150 feet long, the slope gradually increases from zero up to 12 degrees at the bow. The first half of the ski jump has a slope no greater than that of an LHA during wet-well operations with the well-deck flooded – both Harriers and helicopters can land on it...." [Major Art Nalls, USMC, "Why Don't We Have Any Ski Jumps," U.S. Naval Institute Proceedings, November 1990, 81.]


The ramp not only bolsters a STOVL aircraft’s combat payload to its maximum and enhances fixed- and rotary-wing interoperability, it provides a margin of safety to the pilot in emergency situations. The upward vector off the bow offers the pilot extra precious seconds to handle takeoff emergencies and an expanded ejection envelope if required. The price of one saved STOVL aircraft, and potentially the pilot’s life, would probably fund several ramps on amphibious ships. The Navy and Marine Corps need ski jumps on the big-deck amphibious ships....”

Source: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a527872.pdf (50 Kb)

Harrier Operations on a Ski Jump
May – June 1990 Major Art Nalls USMC; NAN Naval Aviation News

"...The important difference between a ski jump and a flat deck is that the heavier the aircraft, and the higher the wind over the deck, the greater the advantage of using a ski jump...."

Source: http://www.history.navy.mil/content/dam ... f/mj90.pdf (4.2Mb)
Attachments
SKI JUMP INFO VARIOUS Sep 2015 pp152 forumED.pdf
(10.95 MiB) Downloaded 626 times
pda3 Ferrol to Turkey breakers Aug 2017ed.jpg
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post15 Aug 2017, 23:34

Marines experience Brit style on ‘Lusty’
08 Aug 2007 Vago Muradian

“...Another philosophical difference is that the British are open to ideas that to Americans seem goofy, but work, such as the 12-degree ramp at the bow of the ship that dramatically improves Harrier operations. Senior U.S. naval officers over the decades have vetoed the idea, saying they don’t like how it looks and that it takes up three helicopter landing spots. British and Marine officers say only one deck spot is lost to the “ski jump.”

To a man, Marine pilots want the ramps installed on their ships to improve operational flexibility & safety. “We’re all in love with the ski ramp because when you come off that ramp, you’re flying,” Bradicich said. “From our ships, if you’re fully loaded, you need 750 feet, and even then you’ve got some sink once you clear the deck. Here, you can do the same thing in 450 feet and you’re climbing.”

But the ramp is intimidating at first sight, pilots said. “I expected it to be violent, but when you take off, it’s almost a non-event,” said Maj. Grant “Postal” Pennington, a pilot with VMA-513 at Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, Ariz. “Up you go, and you’re climbing. It’s a great experience.”

Equally important is the ship that’s bolted to the ramp, pilots said. “Some of our younger guys who haven’t flown from our ships yet are in for a big surprise when they do,” Bradicich said. “This is probably the best ship you could possibly fly a Harrier from. It’s not very big, but it’s really stable, no roll, just a little pitch, not like the flat-bottom gators that roll so much. You’ve got the island moving 30 feet in each direction when you’re trying to land. That tends to get your attention.”

The combination of ski ramp, stability and dedicated crew contributed to a breakneck operational pace. The Marines proudly logged a ship record 79 takeoffs and landings in one day. “These guys are great. We’ve qualed 28 guys in three days, most with eight landings and takeoffs, so even though we said that we were going to crawl, walk, run, our pace has been tremendous, even with different procedures,” Pennington said. “We like to approach the ship at 45 degrees and hit one of the spots, but they approach from dead astern, come to a hover abeam, slide over, then drop down to the deck. It’s different, but you get the hang of it.”

Source: http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/20 ... in_070805/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post24 Aug 2017, 14:58

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post26 Aug 2017, 09:38

:doh: I do not have a subscription to AvWEAK to get more than this about Ski Jump Testing - so I'm sad. :( So is AvWEAK. :roll:
UK Preps F-35 Flight Trials On New British Carrier
23 Aug 2017 Tony Osborne

"With the arrival of Britain’s new aircraft carrier, HMS Queen Elizabeth, into her home port of Portsmouth, England, on Aug. 16, the first pillar of the UK’s plan to reinstate its carrier strike capability has fallen into place. Now, attention is turning to the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter and the testing that will marry aircraft and ship. The F-35 is no stranger to naval operations; F-35Bs have cut their teeth on U.S. amphibious assault ships, while the F-35C has operated ..."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/defense/uk-prep ... sh-carrier
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post14 Sep 2017, 02:23

The F-35 Lightning Integrated Test Force
12 Sep 2017 BLOG?

"Royal Navy Commander Nathan Gray is a member of the Integrated Test Force alongside other F‑35B Lightning developmental test pilots from the RAF, USN, USMC and industry located in Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Maryland, USA.

With over 10 years of Harrier experience, Cdr Gray has conducted numerous operations from both land and sea, but only recently experienced how the F-35B performs a Ski-Jump take-off:

“With both the Sea Harrier FA2 and to a lesser extent the Harrier GR7/9/AV8B, the pilot was very much in-the-loop and had to execute near-perfect timing and control to safely execute a Ski-Jump launch. With the F-35B, the whole experience is much more controlled and predictable with the majority of the launch autonomous, allowing the pilot to focus on the mission ahead rather than being distracted by the launch.”

Each F-35 Developmental Test aircraft is able to capture a significant amount of detailed engineering information about each flight test, being equipped with flight science technologies including specially-designed landing gear to capture all necessary test data. Testing occurs daily with particular focus on aircraft configuration, weight and wind flight envelope (which is the combination of speed, altitude and angle of attack when a flying object is aerodynamically stable)....

...Group Capt Willy Hackett, Joint Strike Fighter Programme Office added:

“As the only Level 1 partner in the F-35 programme alongside the United States, we have been able to place specialists deep within US industry and flight test community. This has enabled the UK, alongside our US colleagues, to take a leading role in the planning and execution of flight trials. This will enable us to unlock the seagoing ability of this air system onboard HMS QUEEN ELIZABETH and ensure we deliver optimum capability for the UK and our allies”...."

Source: https://ukcarrierpower.tumblr.com/post/ ... test-force
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post17 Oct 2017, 21:14

F-35 jet cleared for Carrier take-off, Defence Minister tells Select Committee
17 Oct 2017 Ministry of Defence, Defence Equipment and Support, and Harriett Baldwin MP

"The UK’s cutting-edge F-35 fighter jet is now cleared for take-off from HMS Queen Elizabeth following successful trials using the ski-ramp design featured on the UK flagship, Defence Minister Harriett Baldwin announced at the House of Commons Defence Select Committee this afternoon.

Defence Minister Harriett Baldwin said:
“Successful ski-ramp trials mean the F-35 is cleared to fly from the carrier as the momentum continues for this game-changing jet. This milestone comes as our pilots and planes prepare to return from the States, ready for next year’s unforgettable flight trials from the deck of the nation’s new flagship.”

The UK currently has 12 F-35 jets out in the United States where they are being tested ahead of flight trials from the Royal Navy’s 65,000 tonne carrier, HMS Queen Elizabeth, next year. Two more aircraft are set to be delivered by the end of the year.

During today’s Select Committee session, the Defence Minister announced that the F-35 Integrated Test Force, which includes five British pilots, has now successfully completed ski ramp trials. That milestone clears the aircraft for take-off from the deck of the Carrier....

...And elsewhere, just last week, the first F-35 flight with the latest software was conducted on one of the UK’s F-35Bs at Edwards Air Force Base in California. This software upgrade, technically known as Block 3F, represents the full warfighting capability the UK F-35s will have at Initial Operating Capability in December 2018...."

Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/f-35 ... -committee
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post18 Oct 2017, 06:48

I know this is a long shot, but how hard would it be to fit US LHD/LHAs with a ramp that can be raised and flattened depending on flight ops of the hour? Sounds radical but with hydraulics or whatever you just raise several parts of the deck to certain angles. Reliability might be a problem but that can be worked on. It would help tons for the USMC F-35Bs. And the choppers could still have their landing slots. Doesn't have to be a 100ft long ramp like the UK like to use, could be something shorter, depending on. 21st Century tech should be able to do this!
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Unread post18 Oct 2017, 07:10

noth wrote:I know this is a long shot, but how hard would it be to fit US LHD/LHAs with a ramp that can be raised and flattened depending on flight ops of the hour? Sounds radical but with hydraulics or whatever you just raise several parts of the deck to certain angles. Reliability might be a problem but that can be worked on. It would help tons for the USMC F-35Bs. And the choppers could still have their landing slots. Doesn't have to be a 100ft long ramp like the UK like to use, could be something shorter, depending on. 21st Century tech should be able to do this!

This idea has been discussed on this forum some years back; however if the USN/USMC are not interested in having a ski jump by now they never will. And to get perspective you are incorrect about ski jump length.
"...The QEC’s ski-jump is longer (200ft) than the Invincible class (150ft)..." http://aerosociety.com/News/Insight-Blo ... -countdown


Recent 'ski jump' post with an 11Mb PDF: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=20138&p=373888&hilit=jump+info+various#p373888

Next post following from a decade ago shows USMC Hairier Pilot interest - no movement yet - different philosophy I guess.

SKI JUMP INFO VARIOUS Sep 2015 pp152 forumED.pdf (11Mb)
download/file.php?id=25188
_________________________________________________________

Addition: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=12631&p=230276&hilit=ramp+jump#p230276
&
Olden Goldie: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=12631&p=155538&hilit=ramp+jump#p155538
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post13 Feb 2018, 14:09

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post29 Apr 2018, 00:21

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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