F-35B/C and the Ski-Jump?

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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spazsinbad

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Unread post22 May 2014, 20:18

Thanks 'zerion' I'll add the photo...
“U.S. Navy photo/Jennifer Amber The Atlantic Test Ranges Geomatics and Metrology team, from left, Fred Hancock, Sung Han and Warren Kerr survey the ski jump ramp that was assembled at Naval Air Station Patuxent River in 2009 to document potential deviations from the original design plan.”

Source: http://www.dcmilitary.com/storyimage/DC ... 529960.jpg


Ski Jump Pax River Survey May 2014 AR-140529960.jpg
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Unread post31 May 2014, 14:39

Back in olden tymes the Harrier Ski Jumping was big news and here it is at Farnborough 1978 (clip from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGrIrxpv62U in an earlier post by 'quicksilver': viewtopic.php?f=22&t=15455&p=272150&hilit=jump#p272150 )

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Unread post31 May 2014, 19:00

The video is "private"
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Unread post31 May 2014, 22:03

Youtube has shitted me since day one. I have no idea why the video was set on 'private'. I did not do that nor is it the default setting. The video should not be 'private' now. I'll upload the .WMV here now. BTW some Brits you could just hit with a filthy big RUBBER HAMMER - this guy is one of 'em. "One of the most spectacular Farnborough Shows never took place"? :devil: (Some aircraft I guess a specially built aerobatic number was going to land and takeoff from the ski jump.)
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HarrierSkiJumpFarnboroughDemo1978LoQ.wmv [ 7.66 MiB | Viewed 19884 times ]

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Unread post31 May 2014, 22:30

That mole... I could not stop looking at it :)
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Unread post31 May 2014, 23:19

SpudmanWP wrote:That mole... I could not stop looking at it :)

LOL.. reminded me of a scene from an Austin Powers movie..
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post31 May 2014, 23:44

:twisted: :devil: which mole? :mrgreen: :doh:
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Unread post11 Jul 2014, 18:49

Somehow I missed this thread earlier for Jump De SKY - so I'll post that info here also and keep this thread in mind for any additional SKI JUMP / SKI-JUMP info (the 'Ski-Jump' probably defeated my earlier search - oh well). So from:
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=20304&p=275046&hilit=Jump#p275046

...here is one piece of info I overlooked, being reminded recently by the inestimable 'Engines' over on pPrune (who may have been the engineer responsible for this innovation - only my guess) for STOing off the SKY JUMP. I have not seen the Uhmericans mention this feature - it seems from my reading that the roll control doors are closed when not needed with the air being blocked by them. http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/ ... ost8450458 Anyway....
CVF ski-jump ramp profile optimisation for F-35B
A. Fry, R. Cook and N. Revill, FEBRUARY 2009 VOLUME 113 NO 1140

"...1.4 F-35B STOVL lift and propulsion system
The F-35B has a number of unique elements that facilitate its STOVL capability, and these are critical in the optimisation of a ski jump ramp profile for the aircraft. A basic description of the layout and function of the lift and propulsion system... described below:

● a Lift Fan driven by a shaft from the main engine which provides vertical lift through a variable area vane box nozzle using louvered vanes to vector thrust between vertically downwards and partially aft.

● a three-bearing swivel module (3BSM), which vectors the main engine exhaust thrust from the core engine through vertically downwards to fully aft – the latter being the default for conventional mode flying.

● roll nozzles, ducted from the engine and exiting in each wing providing roll control and vertical lift. These are closed off during the initial portion of the short take-off (STO) in order to maximise forward thrust from the main engine, opening towards the end of the ramp in order to provide control and lift during the fly out...."

Source: http://www.raes.org.uk/pdfs/3324_COLOUR.pdf [not available now]

And repeated earlier here [ viewtopic.php?f=56&t=25691&p=274461&hilit=post#p274461 ] but posted again here due relevance...
Powering the Lightning II
April 2012 Chris Kjelgaard

"...According to Jones, the roll posts themselves are variable-area nozzles which are situated in the lower part of each inner wing section and act to provide roll control for the F-35B while it is in hover mode. In order to do this, the roll-post ducts direct bypass air from the engine to the roll posts, which drive the air out through the bottom of each wing. In the F-35B, 3,700lb (16.46kN) of thrust in the form of bypass air is directed out to the two roll posts while hovering.

Each roll-post assembly features a pair of flap-type doors in the bottom of the wing, controlled by the FADEC. Jones says these titanium doors are controlled by rotary actuators which allow fully variable opening, providing a degree of thrust variability and directionality so that the pilot can control roll while hovering. He says Lockheed Martin’s original X-35 concept demonstrator featured doors between the engine casing and the roll-post ducts which could be closed when the aircraft was not hovering, but in production aircraft there are no such doors and bypass airflow is constantly sent to the ducts. The only way to control roll-post thrust is via the flap-doors in the bottom of the wing...."

Source: http://militaryrussia.ru/forum/download ... p?id=28256 (PDF 14Mb)
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Unread post21 Aug 2014, 06:48

Difficult to answer all those questions concatenated such as they are and as I'm not concerned by the 'other' ski jumpers you mention, the RN CVF ski jump is relevant to the F-35B so here is the news: (repeat from elsewhere on forum)

This is a good ski jump page: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=15969&p=274869&hilit=Hackett#p274869
&
OMG here on this thread: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=14082&p=269627&hilit=Hackett#p269627
ETS winter 2012_13 LIGHTNING STRIKES

“...Onboard the Queen Elizabeth aircraft carriers, the aircraft would take off at its maximum weight of nearly 27 tonnes using a UK-developed ski-jump, and land either vertically or using the novel UK-developed Short Rolling Vertical Landing [SRVL) technique. This would enable the jet to land at a much higher weight than is possible in a purely vertical Landing. [2204.62lbs = 1 tonne | 59,535lbs = 27 tonnes] (F-35B is in the 60K weight class) Wing Commander Hackett explained: "SRVL is under development for the carriers. but it means the aircraft would fly in at around 60 to 70 mph and then brake to a stop on the deck,.... It will be able to land up to 1.8 tonnes (4,000lbs [3968.32072 pounds]) heavier than would otherwise be possible, meaning unexpended weapons can be brought back to the ship.”

Source: http://content.yudu.com/A219ee/ETSWin12 ... ces/20.htm
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Unread post21 Aug 2014, 10:48

spazsinbad wrote::twisted: :devil: which mole? :mrgreen: :doh:


"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post28 Aug 2014, 21:50

Belated thanks to mods for fixing the 'FLASH PLAYER' malware issue seen above and now for something completely different.... The single page PDF attached has some low quality photos of the various USN aircraft on the SKI JUMP. The RAN LHD Ski Jump is not such an issue with deck markings showing a helo spot at the beginning of the ramp up. Art Nalls USMC has said as much in his treatise on potential ski jumps for USMC flat decks (search forum for Nalls). Go here:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=12631&p=233379&hilit=Nalls#p233379
&
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=12631&p=230276&hilit=Nalls#p230276
The Kneeboard
Winter 2014 Patuxent River Naval Air Museum Association

"Run & Jump!
Aircraft ski jumps interested the military for two reasons. The Air Force and Marines wanted a way for aircraft to operate from the short stretches of runway remaining after airfield bombing attacks. The Navy and Marines wanted a way to reduce the length of carrier flight deck needed for an aircraft to become airborne—without the aid of a catapult. The Air Force decided not to use ski jumps, but the Navy proceeded with the idea. During the late 1970s and early 1980s, the Naval Air Test Center (NATC) performed ski jump tests at NAS Patuxent River using the T-2, F-14, F/A-18, and AV-8 Harrier.

However, the ski-jump design has drawbacks: the forward part of the flight deck is no longer available for parking aircraft and there is less space available for moving aircraft around on the already crowded carrier deck. In addition, the upward push of the ski jump also means that aircraft structures may need to be stronger to bear the extra launch loads. This could lead to aircraft that weigh—and cost—more.

Flight tests showed that the basic theory was sound: all aircraft tested took off in significantly shorter distances than they could from flat decks. But except for the AV-8 Harrier, none of these aircraft ever flew from ski-jump-equipped carriers.

The F-35B VSTOL (Vertical/Short Take-Off & Landing) version of the Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) will soon take its turn on a new ski jump at NAS Patuxent River. These tests will support the Marine Corps and JSF partner nations Great Britain and Italy, which operate carriers designed with ski jumps."

Source: http://api.ning.com/files/xEh6B1KdSWQzO ... educed.pdf (1Mb)
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ONLY Ski Jumping KneeboardWinter2014reduced.pdf
(200.26 KiB) Downloaded 761 times
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Unread post10 Sep 2014, 09:55

Stepping-Stones
Tony Osborne AVIATION WEEK & SPACE TECHNOLOGY / SEPTEMBER 8, 2014

"...Particular emphasis has also been placed on how the F-35 will launch from the Queen Elizabeth's ski jump, which gives the aircraft valuable vertical impetus, allowing for greater takeoff weights as well as a positive rate of climb. The F-35B's flight control logic has been written for the Queen Elizabeth's new 12-deg. jump, which at 200 ft. long, is some 50 ft. longer than that used on the Invincible-class carriers.

With the aircraft lined up for takeoff, the pilot presses the short-takeoff-and-vertical- landing (STOVL) switch, activating the lift fan and rear nozzle. The lift fan is fully operational within 15 sec. The F-35B uses the same process and partially opens its weapons bay doors, which help provide more lift. As the aircraft hits the ski jump, its flight control logic recognizes it is on the ski jump and uses the rear nozzle to keep all three wheels on the ground. The aircraft should be airborne at around 90 kt.

"It's a luxurious way to get airborne,'' says Wilson. "The pilot simply uses the pedals to keep the aircraft straight, and the aircraft recognizes the presence of the ski jump." Test pilots have tried out the ski jump only in the simulator, but that work has been very valuable in addressing early concerns about the ground clearance between the ski jump and rear nozzle...."

Source: AVIATION WEEK & SPACE TECHNOLOGY / SEPTEMBER 8, 2014
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Unread post26 Sep 2014, 17:49

Not strictly about SRVL with general info about QE simulator with take off stats (from the Jump De Sky) at end.
Ship Shape F-35/QEC simulator
SEPTEMBER 2014 AEROSPACETESTINGINTERNATIONAL.COM; PAUL E EDEN

"...HARRIER LEGACY
Comparisons are frequently made between the F-35B and the Harrier; they are usually misleading. But in the case of BAE Systems’ F-35/carrier flight simulator, earlier work with the legacy jet and Invincible class ships has helped lay the foundations for Warton’s 21st century simulator design. As David Atkinson, F-35 Carrier Integration Lead at BAE Systems, explains, the result is a flexible system with capabilities beyond F-35B: “We’ve been conducting flight simulation at Warton for over 50 years for many projects, including simulating Harriers operating from the recently retired Invincible CVS class. The F-35/carrier flight simulator has been developed to support the integration of the F-35 to the QE class ships. It is, however, capable of simulating F-35C to aircraft carriers with catapults and arrestor gear, and has been used for assessment of various flight control developments for F-35C to CVN and, while the UK was considering a CV-converted QE class ship, for F-35C to QE.”

Unlike the more familiar full mission simulator, the F-35/carrier sim focuses on the near-ship environment, primarily for the assessment of launch and recovery operations, including circuits around the ship. It uses a Lockheed Martin F-35 six-degrees-of-freedom mathematical model validated against extensive flight test data; a QEC ship motion model provided by the Aircraft Carrier Alliance (ACA), based on tank test data; and a computational fluid dynamics (CFD) ship-airwake flowfield that is being further developed and validated by the University of Liverpool.

Realism has been further enhanced by the recent addition of a landing signal officer’s (LSO) station. The LSO’s role will be similar to that aboard an Invincible class ship, but according to Atkinson there will be “a larger workstation and more sophisticated situational awareness aids and information displays”.

Describing the simulator’s design and how the LSO station is integrated, Atkinson continues: “From a physical point of view it has a hydraulic motion platform within a dome and uses motion-cueing algorithms to enable the pilot to feel aircraft motion in a very realistic way, despite remaining very firmly on the ground. High-specification projectors are used, with a very high-resolution projector for the pilot’s forward field of view. It has a second projected screen display to represent part of the FLYCO – the LSO workstation, at which a pilot can operate as an LSO, interacting with the pilot flying the simulator, while watching the aircraft maneuver in real time. The combined motion simulator and FLYCO representation have proved very valuable while developing maneuvers, operating procedures and display layouts.”

SIMULATOR AMBITION
Allowing pilots to fly F-35B approaches in cooperation with an LSO, as they will on the real carrier at sea, is already delivering immense value to the program, but Atkinson says that the simulator is scheduled for much greater capability. “Our ambition is for the simulator to be used for wider purposes than pilot and LSO interactions...."...

...Work to date has driven modification and refinement in carrier flight deck design, aircraft design and operational procedures. “We’ve conducted a number of trials to develop the F-35B to QEC vertical landing, ski-jump launch and shipborne rolling vertical landing maneuvers and the supporting systems; visual landing aids (flight deck lights, glidepath indicators), F-35B helmet mounted display symbology, LSO situational awareness aids and standard operating procedures.

“We’ve helped the MoD and the ACA optimize and gain confidence in their designs and likewise for some changes we’ve made to the F-35B, to allow shipborne rolling vertical landings to be conducted. These are unique to the QE class and involve a rolling vertical landing onto the ship’s ‘runway’ with 30 to 40kt of overtake, allowing increased bring-back weight performance for the aircraft, which should pay dividends on operations,” says Atkinson....

...Over more than a decade of work, Warton’s F-35/carrier simulator has identified and helped fix various issues, as well as facilitating the safe expansion of the operating envelope. “The QE class has an immense flight deck with state-of-the-art visual landing aids,” says Atkinson. “The F-35 is a hugely capable 5th generation aircraft that pilots find easy to fly to a ship and we believe that there are lots of good ways to operate the F-35B to a ship the size of the QE, with our role being to optimize the designs and procedures to maximize performance. We’ve identified a few issues and concerns through the simulation work, but thankfully it also provides an ideal environment to visualize problems, explain them and rapidly show how potential solutions would work. Between the MoD, ACA and ourselves we have identified and resolved a number of issues over the 10 plus years that we’ve been working together using the Warton simulator.”...

...The potential of Warton’s F-35/carrier simulator to begin the definition of a future training syllabus even as its test work continues is obvious and Atkinson confirms its role, not only in pilot training, but also for flight deck crew: “We have already used the simulator to inform the training syllabuses and help our customers understand the benefits of immersive simulation to their training processes for the pilot and LSO. What is abundantly clear is that simulation technology is here to stay and continues to increase its role in development and training based on cost-effectiveness and an ever-increasing ability to emulate the real world.”

300 Take-off run in feet from QEC for lightly loaded F-35B

800 Take-off run in feet[/b] from QEC for[/b] fully loaded F-35B

Source: AEROSPACE TESTING INTERNATIONAL September 2014
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Unread post11 Oct 2014, 04:35

News about Indian NEW CARRIER Ski Jump at 14 degrees....
India's 1st indigenous aircraft carrier taking shape at Kochi
09 Oct 2014 Press Trust of India | Chennai

“India's first indigenous aircraft carrier was taking shape in the Cochin Shipyard Limited at Kochi, one of the nine Defence PSUs in the country, where 85 per cent of the work relating to its hull are complete, a senior official said here today.

"Around 85 per cent of the hull is complete and 90 per cent of the fabrication is over. 85 per cent of the erection has been over," Commodore K Subramaniam (Retd), CSL Chairman and Managing Director told reporters on the sidelines of a function organised by the CII.

Interacting with journalists in the sidelines of a CII- organised conference on 'Approach to Integrated Maritime Systems' here, he said many elements of innovations were being incorporated in the building of the aircraft carrier.

"For instance, the Navy wanted a 14 degree ski-jump in the foxle [foc'sle=forecastle or FRONT END] of the ship for easy taking off of fighter planes, for which a big piece of iron had to be welded, which was also trimming down the ship to the front.

"We have employed a big piece of iron in the hull area, which will function as a buoyant, which has made the keel of the hull float horizontally. Likewise, we have made many innovations in the building."

Replying to a query, he said the degree of indigenous equipment in the aircraft carrier was very high, barring the aviation, for which the county was dependent on Russia. "We can say around 80 per cent of the ship is indigenous."...."

Source: http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 936_1.html
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Unread post28 Jan 2015, 11:23

Has their been any news on Flight Testing the F-35B and the CVF Test Ski-Jump yet? I was under the impression it was due to start last Autumn.
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