F-35 Approach AOA

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stobiewan

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Unread post05 Sep 2011, 11:18

Oh, they can cruise quite efficiently nearer the top of their speed range -- the details are covered in this useful essay from Naval Weapons:

http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-028.htm


They won't do 40 knots -and I really pointed that out to demonstrate that Sharkey is running an average of one total out and out factual howler per paragraph.

The actual point raised about F35 landing speeds and how easily or not they can be brought aboard a CVF has been interesting and I certainly wasn't confusing the messenger with the message on that one, apologies if I'd ruffled your feathers on that one,

Ian



spazsinbad wrote:stobiewan, just happened on this PDF of a four day surge for USS Nimitz in July 1997 showing carrier speed (GPS DATA):

USS Nimitz and Carrier Airwing Nine Surge Demonstration

www.cna.org/documents/2797011110.pdf

And yes I have read the screed at the link below given by 'Maks'.
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Unread post05 Sep 2011, 12:48

stobiewan, no worries. Just making a point that probably should have been made earlier in other threads.

About Sharkey. I have enormous respect for him but worry about how he probably seems to allow the 'distinguished others' (possibly even older old fogies) :D do research for him. Sharkey needs to do his own research or get better - more up to date - help. Sharkey is of the old school verbal argument in your face USMC kind. Checking facts would be impossible. Today that method is 'just so flawed' because we all have the luxury of Googling 'facts' and not being face to face the immediacy of his style of 'bombast' is missing. Sharkey did good stuff in his day but these days maybe he needs to be the one advising someone else that is doing the arguing. As you say he just gets so much wrong; but I can follow the drift - even if I don't agree in the thrust of the argument. Arguing to have Super Hornets instead of F-35Cs is wrong IMHO. I like the way any advantages of F-35C over Shornets are ignored. Good one Sharkey. I would like to meet him one day [unlikely if he is in 'Bahamas' and I'm in Oz] - just to shake his hand. AWIs are fearsome characters eh. :D

Yes I have read the 1999 CVN speed article - there are two threads with the 'F-35C landing information' [UK MOD in a MUDDLE over F-35C]. Sorry about that but thought it necessary to keep the 'F-35C Optimum AoA information' all in one thread also. Will be interesting to see next year what is decided about arrest/cat gear and deck layout etc. I still hope after proper investigation (given a decade of work on F-35B) that it is decided to go back to F-35B. Possibly by then the F-35 program overall will be less problematic for the UK. And get some money in your coffers. :D
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Unread post13 Sep 2011, 23:20

From previous page entry in this thread [Weekend Wings #38: The F-111 Aardvark, Part 2] about heavyweight arrested USN Mk.7 Mod.3 landings and the figures stated - here is a 1999 USN LSO Reference Manual graphic about 'heavyweight' landings which approximate the (F-111) F-35C with the EA-6B. Optimum settings in colours.

LANDING SIGNAL OFFICER REFERENCE MANUAL (REV. B) 1999 (new 2010 edition not available to public so far)

http://63.192.133.13/VMF-312/LSO.pdf (5.5Mb)
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Unread post15 Sep 2011, 00:36

F35 Lightning II Fighter Jet video by Rhiain Morgan on Tue 13 Sep 2011

http://www.t3.com/feature/f35-lightning ... 0&ns_fee=0

"Top gun trainer for F35 Lightning ii fighter jet and helmet

Maker of all things military, BAE Systems, has created the ultimate simulator for Lockheed Martin’s F-35 Lightning II, the next-gen stealth fighter that will be the RAF’s main weapon within the next decade and we we let into the defence inner circle for a closer look.

The sim uses six projectors to produce a panoramic 180-degree screen, helping pilots perfect such essentials as landing on a carrier deck in a storm, dog-fighting and nailing the ultimate loop.

We went along to the simulator’s base in Warton, Lancashire, for a test drive. Watch the video to find out how we got on."
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T3flightSimBAEf-35carrierApproach.wmv [ 5.38 MiB | Viewed 45677 times ]

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neptune

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Unread post15 Sep 2011, 01:43

spazsinbad wrote:[..Warton, Lancashire, for a test drive. .."


Bravo on the centerline; touch and go?, bit lite on the tailhook! :)
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Unread post24 Sep 2011, 09:15

On the first page of this thread was a query about the FOV (Field of View) over the nose, then a diagram of this requirement for Navy aircraft on page 3 of this thread. Was reminded when reading this today:

FLIGHT TEST: F-35 Simulator - Virtual fighter By Mike Gerzanics 31/07/07 SOURCE:Flight International

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... ghter.html

“...Field of view over the nose is excellent, enhanced by the small radome enclosing the active-array radar....”
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Unread post26 Mar 2012, 01:10

An amendment to my 'back of envelope' F-35C Carrier Approach information needs to be amended in the light of these 'Speed Definitions' as indicated in this definition excerpt from:

"The relationship between Vpa, WOD, and engaging speed is significant to the discussion of approach requirements. Touchdown speed is defined as 105% of Vpa. The 5% factor added to the touchdown speed is not arbitary. It is based on actual ship survey data and the statistical variation seen in the actual touchdown speeds. The percentage varies with each aircraft. However, for design purposes, a 5% factor is used as a nominal value to define touchdown speed. Engaging speed is defined as touchdown speed minus WOD. Closure speed is the relative speed between the aircraft and the ship. The engaging speed limit is the minimum of the arresting gear limit speed, hookload limit speed, or limiting sink speed. The engaging speed must not exceed the engaging limit speed for safe recovery. WOD is generated by the combination of natural wind and/or ship speed."
+ [from diagram]
Engaging Speed Factor (0.06 x Approach Speed)
SPEED DEFINITIONS: from REVIEW OF THE CARRIER APPROACH CRITERIA FOR CARRIER-BASED AIRCRAFT PHASE I; FINAL REPORT
http://www.robertheffley.com/docs/HQs/N ... 002_71.pdf
___________

So this rough calculation: "CVF at 10 knots in NIL wind can arrest at Maximum Landing Weight F-35C at Opt. Angle of Attack Approach (140- KIAS) within limits of the USN Mk.7 Mod 3 or better Arresting Gear" from page 3 of this thread (scroll down): http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopi ... rt-30.html

Amendment needed perhaps however i thnk I used the maximum quoted figures so it is all in the ball park - if in doubt add 5 KNOTS! [to CVF speed 10+5=15 knots :D (for mum 'n the kids)]. I'll get around to that recalculation soonish.....
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Unread post17 May 2012, 22:52

On first page of this thread 'dino1974' back on 12 Jan 2010 said:

"@neutrino
I think I know why you are asking the AoA question...
Thanks for your help with the FSX model. BTW I hope I will be able to pack the Beta 1 tonight.

@ Spazsinbad
Interesting read - I'd really want to make a -B and -C models for Flight Simulator and hope I can find the time one day or another..."

It took some time with an F-35A 'cheapware' model being released but now withdrawn because the model has been updated along with BETA versions of F-35B and F-35C now in development 16 May 2012.

GO HERE:
http://indiafoxtecho.blogspot.com.au/20 ... shots.html

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bku13uAh1tk/T ... _hover.jpg

"Hovering in the F-35B:
http://indiafoxtecho.blogspot.com.au/20 ... f-35b.html

"...the integration with Rob Barenrdregt's STOVL functionality is done and...works like a dream! I spent a lot of the weekend hovering here and there and it is a lot of fun. Also, the F-35B is almost ready for Beta testing...

...And I've also figured out a way to model the F-35C in a reasonable amount of time (with a little artistic licence on a couple of details... which I am sure someone will notice in seconds, but it may be a fair compromise...it is worth a try IMHO).” 01 May 2012

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YFDXyGEZLkM/T ... _hover.jpg

There are other screenshots of F-35As and F-35Cs on Dino's Blog - so go look.
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F-35BfsxDinoVLapproach.jpg
FSXcattaneoF-35BstovlMode.jpg
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Unread post18 May 2012, 22:29

Latest comments from LM; "The all versions of the jet have started flying with external stores. Later this year, the aircraft will enter into high angle of attack testing up to 50 angle of attack, O'Bryan says. The programme will also start wet runway tests, engine air starts, and weapons releases. "
:)
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Unread post23 May 2012, 10:15

'Prepar3D' is an offshoot of Microsoft Flight Simulator X (FSX). Some FSX aircraft will fly in Prepar3D but not all. I have Prepar3D but need an up to date computer to run it. My now 3 year old + computer runs FSX OK but not Prepar3D. Anyhoo there is another Utube video which highlights some F-35 stuff. I'll post an F-35C clip soon. [USN F-35C clip only portion here (same as below attached) http://youtu.be/9QQT1X40qfg ]

Screenshot attached is HMDS virtual HUD view from complete video at Utube.

Are you Prepar3D®?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... YQ5dP0WOFA

"Published on May 18, 2012 by LockheedMartinVideos
Prepar3D® simulation software presents a virtual world that spans from the depths of the ocean to suborbital space. See how Prepar3D can be used for immersive, experiential learning in this trailer. Since launching the software in 2010 as an evolution of Microsoft ESP technology for professional training and academic learning, Lockheed Martin has expanded ground and maritime settings, added camera sensors and enhanced its multi-player capability for distributed training exercises. Visit prepar3d.com"
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F-35Cprepar3dUSN.wmv [ 9.34 MiB | Viewed 41375 times ]

F-35HMDSvirtualHUDviewPrepar3D.jpg
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Unread post01 Jun 2012, 03:43

Dino Cattaneo's F-35 Family is being BETA tested at moment, here is one result video for F-35C:

F-35C Initial Carrier Trials VIDEO FSX Flight Simulator X Accelerator

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 1m-YDW2kW4

"Published on May 31, 2012 by degigi2003"
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F-35C Initial Carrier Trials FSX zoom OptAoA.gif
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Unread post01 Jun 2012, 09:14

F-35B First Landing on a Cruiser FSX Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... n5XnupDw3w

"Published on May 24, 2012 by degigi2003?
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Unread post02 Jun 2012, 02:32

F-35 Beta 2 Test WIP - Reporting and open discussion May 28, 2012

http://indiafoxtecho.blogspot.com.au/20 ... -open.html

'Orion' (testing) screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/lpn2H.jpg
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Unread post14 Jul 2012, 14:38

F-35 Cleared to taxi and hold short... 12 July 2012

http://indiafoxtecho.blogspot.com.au/20 ... short.html

"Just a quick note to announce that the F-35 is *almost* ready. That is, I have a build that should be good enough for distribution. There are still some bugs here and there, and I was not able to fix all the issues that were highlighted during the Beta tests. Still, I believe the build is good enough, considering the complexity of the project and the fact that, well, I could continue trying to fix minor issues forever....at a certain point it is better to stop, provided that the quality level is acceptable.

After a thoughtful consideration the project will be payware - but I believe the price will be definitely acceptable for most users. Final price has not been decided but it will be close to the previous F-35, possibly with discounts for previous customers (if technically feasible).

I am, and will be and I still consider myself, a freeware developer - this is just a hobby for me and I do not want greed to be part of my hobbies... nor I envision this activity will ever replace my real life job, nor I'd like to become a regular businness. But the F-35 project has been extemely expensive by my standards, and, frankly, I'd like to limit my loss (which is in the area of few thousands euros...mostly spent on acquiring the high-definition meshes I've used as starting point in the modeling).

Anyway, it is almost ready. Almost. I still need to complete the manual, pack the files etc. etc.... I believe that will require another week or two. I hope you will have fun with the Lightning II."
&
"Forgot to say that if you'd like to see the list of changes/fixes, I've updated the Beta 2 tracking post below..."

http://indiafoxtecho.blogspot.it/2012/0 ... -open.html

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KcyhWQTQ6wQ/T ... 0/F35C.jpg
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Unread post21 Jul 2012, 15:39

F-35 Manual Draft 1 for download 20 July 2012

http://indiafoxtecho.blogspot.com.au/20 ... nload.html

"Above are few screenshots of the final models for the F-35 A, B and C, and here is a download link to the draft version of the manual. It is just a 25 pages document, but it should be good enough to provide the information the average user may need to enjoy this F-35 rendition. As the package will not be freeware, I have included an honest and, as far as I can, unbiased list of the major shortcomings of the package in a section of the manual - along with what I believe will be the FAQ. I honestly believe it is the most realstic rendition of the F-35 so far in any recreational enviromnent - but is definitely far from the incredible realism of other commercial packages...."

5Mb PDF download link at the URL above.

More text and DOWNLOAD LINK for the 5Mb PDF manual at the URL above. Found that FireFox was best to use for download rather than IE9 on Windows 7. Others may have a different experience however.

This bombed up F-35B in STOVL mode is - perhaps - unrealistic but it is FSX after all, maybe the aircraft is just doing a STO at Max. AUW or similar?:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mP_G5WAj3H0/U ... 0/F35B.jpg
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