F-16 acceleration from 200kts to Mach1

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basher54321

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Unread post05 Oct 2019, 13:29

Patriot wrote:I think that if anything can compete with the Typhoon on acceleration it's the Viper. Put GE-132 into the Block 50 or 70 and Typhoon would comes 2nd every time. Even that heavy heavily modified Block 60 airframe with said motor climbs like a Saturn 5 rocket - as seen on the video above 8)


Block 60 should on paper at least be the quickest F-16.

How about a Block 30:

http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article691.html
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Patriot

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Unread post05 Oct 2019, 17:03

:shock: That Block 30 could have easily replaced Space Shuttles I guess for the nano fraction % of its cost.
Shame.

Too bad that Block 30/GE132 test pilot isnt on this forum to tell how that wonder was behaving in the air. 8)
Id love to see the acceleration figures charts for that one!
Ps. Is there any such for Block 60 or the entire manual?
Block 70 should comes with that engine by default.
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basher54321

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Unread post05 Oct 2019, 17:08

Nothing on the Block 60 and I wouldn't be pasting charts from it on here if I did have it - bad form.
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f-16adf

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Unread post06 Oct 2019, 16:46

Patriot,

Sorry for the delay, was gone yesterday. But here it is (you can also find it in the Flight Supplement):
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F-16C GE-129 mil.jpg
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Patriot

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Unread post06 Oct 2019, 22:06

Thanks!

It's a bit counter intuitive. 35 seconds to .91 Mach - same as Pratt despite the Pratt has according to specs entire 5kN (1150lbs) more on the MIL.
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jetblast16

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Unread post07 Oct 2019, 14:06



That thing must have been a rocket ship!
Have F110, Block 70, will travel
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f-16adf

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Unread post07 Oct 2019, 16:28

Pretty impressive Block 60. I wish they would do a demo w/o those CFT's on the jet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaiSkasXec8 they had to ruin it by playing that idiotic Kenny Loggin's song in the beginning :doh:


I think the 60 is approx 20,700lbs empty (no CFT's), so with that gigantic engine it could have the best accel/climb rates of the entire F-16 famiglia (except for that T&E B30 w/-132, obviously that jet is the true definition of a rocket ship).
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Unread post05 Nov 2019, 13:26

Which one of the three would accelerate the fastest from a brake release on the runway to Mach 1? F-16, F-15 or F-22? Assuming conditions: clean config, 50% internal fuel, sea level runway, negative 15°C.
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f-16adf

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Unread post05 Nov 2019, 15:26

Patriot,

The only Level Flight Accel chart for a clean Eagle is at 10,000ft and at 40,000lbs Figure B9-21. So according to that doc, 29,500lbs empty - 40,000lbs= 10,500lbs of gas or .78 internal. For the F-16 you would have to reference Figure B8-10 chart (sheet 1) and interpolate for .78 internal fuel. Which on a Block 50 would be 5,586lbs. Add that to its empty weight of 19,261lbs and you get 24,847lbs. So do some math (between 24-28,000lbs columns). F-16 should beat the Eagle at 10Kft by about 1.5 seconds. Sorry, can't really be more specific only looking at the charts on a cell.

These temps are for a standard day at 10Kft which is -5 Celsius. (Standard day at SL is 29.92Hg and 15C, standard lapse rate is 2C ((3.5F)) per 1,000ft).
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Unread post05 Nov 2019, 15:40

Thanks for that computing.
Im curious specifically about Viper vs. Raptor.
A long time ago somewhere on this forum (or elswhere, cant recall) I've read that on a cold day anywhere between 0 - 10K ft MSL of altitude a clean Block 50 Viper has a better acceleration than a Raptor.. and that allegedly was the statement of Lockheed test pilot.
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f-16adf

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Unread post05 Nov 2019, 15:49

I've only seen the Raptor about 3 times in flight (once at an airshow, twice in the Traffic Pattern above my house). It's very impressive. When the Raptor departed, he did an unrestricted climb out (again, quite impressive).

I've heard about the clean Block 50 beating it too under 25,000ft. So I guess, it probably could be true. If that is the case, then I imagine that the Eurofighter Typhoon can beat all of them. Raptor pilot did mention that EF had impressive acceleration.
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Unread post05 Nov 2019, 16:11

Gotchya.
Look at this one here.
The climb rate and the fact it is able to accelerate vertically after high alpha pass says something about the potential of the 16 too

https://youtu.be/B_9NVEomQwo
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Unread post05 Nov 2019, 19:46

I've read several times that the Raptors intakes are turned for supersonic flight and that it reduced the thrust for subsonic flight. That would explain pretty much everything you are saying wouldn't it?
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Unread post06 Nov 2019, 13:35

I guess.. Physics is the same for everybody. The huge surface body area of the F-15, F-22 or Eurofighter exposed to the slipstream at high angels of attack produce huge amounts of drag slowing them down taking away g's & °/s. Viper might be the best turning thing at low altitudes. As far as acceleration goes, Block 50/70 with GE-132 would kick Eurofighter's @$$ with ease. Id put some :2c: on that.

https://youtu.be/HBlP4cCRVmk
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Unread post06 Nov 2019, 14:44

Patriot, this is one of the best F-16 Turn videos on YT. (Solo Turk Block 40)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcBlEU62e8c


It begins at :34 second mark. It is about 14.7 sec total. He is not turning at Ps=0, but above. He is starting at 9G and decelerating down to approx 6Gish (notice his turn circle is getting smaller/ and he maintains altitude). So his average turn rate is 24.5Deg/sec. Meaning he is turning on average around -250Ps.






As far as the Raptor goes, here are words from Paul Metz & Code One Magazine.(from one of TEG's old posts)

By Paul Metz, F-22 Chief Test Pilot wrote:
"I’ve been talking about drag, but the real secret to supercruise is thrust minus drag. The big thrust comes from the incredible F119 engines. We sometimes forget about these beauties as they continue to perform trouble-free at all flight conditions—the perfect engine for a fighter pilot. They tolerate any throttle motions and pilot demands from ridiculously low speeds to supersonic flight at altitudes above 50,000 feet. Although the F-22 uses a fixed inlet design, the overall engine and airframe are optimized for the high supersonic speeds. Acceleration and Ps are phenomenal at the right hand side of the flight envelope. The Raptor can easily exceed its design speed limits, particularly at low altitude. We have incorporated max speed cues and alerts to remind pilots when approaching the limits."


I think also that the Raptor is just larger in frontal cross section than the F-16 or Typhoon. Granted the Raptor is big (not as big as the Eagle or Tomcat) but large in more of a "compact" way so to speak. Maybe that together with it being optimized for high end speed, is the reason why the Block 50 can supposedly beat it under 25,000ft (or possibly Typhoon as well).
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