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Meet the F-21!

Unread postPosted: 20 Feb 2019, 07:49
by orkss
:D :D

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Meet the F-21. Specifically configured for the Indian Air Force, the F-21 provides unmatched ‘Make in India’ opportunities and strengthens India’s path to an advanced airpower future.

The F-21 addresses the Indian Air Force’s unique requirements and integrates India into the world’s largest fighter aircraft ecosystem with the world’s pre-eminent defence company. Lockheed Martin and Tata would produce the F-21 in India, for India.
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Just marketing, as far as I can see.
I could not yet see the differences with Block 70.

More:
https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/f-21.html
https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/ ... 20Card.pdf

Re: Meet the F-21!

Unread postPosted: 20 Feb 2019, 08:48
by element1loop
F-21 ... almost an F-22 ...

Re: Meet the F-21!

Unread postPosted: 20 Feb 2019, 13:29
by basher54321
So somewhere between an F-20 and F-22 ;)


There are a few differences - first single place F-16 I have seen with a dorsal avionics spine.

The massive touchscreen monitor that totally changes the cockpit.

The refueling probe is unique but was tested on a block 60 many years back Iirc

Re: Meet the F-21!

Unread postPosted: 20 Feb 2019, 14:05
by popcorn
This is interesting. It appears the US will retain somd F-16 production capability. prudent move IMO.

https://www.theweek.in/news/india/2019/ ... e-f21.html

Lockheed Martin had previously said an F-16 contract with the Indian Air Force would make India a key hub for the fighter's production and export. However, the company in 2018 announced that F-16 would still be built in South Carolina as another plant in Fort Worth, Texas, transitioned to building the F-35 stealth fighter.

Re: Meet the F-21!

Unread postPosted: 20 Feb 2019, 15:02
by Patriot
basher54321 wrote: first single place F-16 I have seen with a dorsal avionics spine.


I noticed that too.
Although on two-seater that spine looks quite fine... here it DESTROYS Viper uniqe line. I know they had to cramp additional hardware somewhere that make the F-16 5 digits more capable ;) (F-21) lol but it's a total desecration and profanity done to a holly grail of fighterpilotnees

Id only wish that LockMart made GE-132 avilable for other customers as well within F-16V package.

So, maybe USAF should consider F-21 too if they already made green light for a "Super Eagle". Super Viper deserves it too!

Re: Meet the F-21!

Unread postPosted: 20 Feb 2019, 15:12
by mixelflick
I hope for their sake they make the right decision, albeit I have to admit I'm not sure what that is (given their requirements).

Their logistics chain is going to be a nightmare, unless they buy more Rafale's. None of the contenders will give them an edge over Chinese J-20's, or her recently acquired SU-35's. Tejas? LOL. Well, they can't do any worse than Canada picking up 80's retro F-18's.

If I was them, I'd go all in for Rafale's. Not stealth, but great swing capability, weapons and sensors. Possible it could even replace Mig-29k's on her carrier. I'd love to see them get the F-35, but that's not happening...

Re: Meet the F-21!

Unread postPosted: 20 Feb 2019, 15:37
by Patriot
mixelflick wrote:None of the contenders will give them an edge over Chinese J-20's, or her recently acquired SU-35's.


Quite far fetched assumption. Su-35 RCS is still the size of a barn and F-21 sensors and crew SA would be outstanding + AMRAAM family has its reputation arround air forces that once found themselves on the recieving end of its employment and were forced to write off some equipment in the aftermath. I think Su-35 pilot has a lot more reasons to fear Super Viper than vice versa.
We know nothing about J-20 stealthyness apart it has weapon bays and is bigger and heavier than the Raptor.

Re: Meet the F-21!

Unread postPosted: 20 Feb 2019, 16:05
by popcorn
Almost certainly a fleet of 114 X F-21s will be more affordable to buy and operate than a similar number of Rafales.

Re: Meet the F-21!

Unread postPosted: 20 Feb 2019, 16:44
by Patriot
Bottom line is, from the potential foe point of view it's actually irrelevant what they gonna buy.
Giving current and lasting attrition rate IAF has anything if it's more advanced than a bicycle in the hands of these sloppy people will be turned into scrap within a few years.
Those new 100 fighters should last for (5) years, maybe

Re: Meet the F-21!

Unread postPosted: 20 Feb 2019, 17:28
by Patriot
basher54321 wrote:First single place F-16 I have seen with a dorsal avionics spine.


I knew Ive seen dorsal spine on a single seater before somewhere, despite it's less bulky from the one in " F-21 " . The AFTI #75-0750

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Re: Meet the F-21!

Unread postPosted: 20 Feb 2019, 19:19
by basher54321
Ah yes the AFTI!

Still they wont be knocking the extras like the 6 or so extra decoy dispensers some of the spined Ds have.

Re: Meet the F-21!

Unread postPosted: 20 Feb 2019, 21:16
by strykerxo

Re: Meet the F-21!

Unread postPosted: 20 Feb 2019, 21:37
by Patriot
strykerxo

So? All F-16D's block 50+ and 52+ and its customizations as israeli Sufa have a dorsal spine in common.
The thing is until today there were no single seat F-16 (A, C or E) with such a feature except an experimental AFTI.

I wonder if Indians wont chose "F-21" does Lockheed pretend F-21 never was or will they propose it to other potential customers as well or they just settle with modest ;) F-16V b70/72 ?

Re: Meet the F-21!

Unread postPosted: 21 Feb 2019, 01:01
by weasel1962
The recent CAG report on the rafale is illuminating. The reason why the F-16 was rejected in the 1st round was embargo risk. imho, inconsistent since the Tejas uses an American engine so the risks are already inherent in any project. The line shift to India reduces that risk. The re-designation is really to address the other issue that the F-16 is used by the Pakistanis. Now no one else uses the F-21.

The F-21 is the cheapest, most value for money option. It can provide a quick re-capitalisation with 2nd hand F-16s or newbuilds. It can move to the F-35 which presents the most mature and cost effective growth option. It continues to integrate new technologies developed including for the F-35. The AESA is fantastic. The EW is fantastic. The munitions are combat proven and cost-effective. The F-16s will fly with the USAF until 2044 at least, providing a continued supplier support base for the next 25 years or more. I think LM has done a good job repackaging the F-16.

However none of these matter if attitudes and mindsets in India on the part of the decision makers don't change. That and the likelihood that half the fleet will eventually crash after India's induction.

Re: Meet the F-21!

Unread postPosted: 21 Feb 2019, 02:21
by crosshairs
weasel1962 wrote:The recent CAG report on the rafale is illuminating. The reason why the F-16 was rejected in the 1st round was embargo risk. imho, inconsistent since the Tejas uses an American engine so the risks are already inherent in any project. The line shift to India reduces that risk. The re-designation is really to address the other issue that the F-16 is used by the Pakistanis. Now no one else uses the F-21.

The F-21 is the cheapest, most value for money option. It can provide a quick re-capitalisation with 2nd hand F-16s or newbuilds. It can move to the F-35 which presents the most mature and cost effective growth option. It continues to integrate new technologies developed including for the F-35. The AESA is fantastic. The EW is fantastic. The munitions are combat proven and cost-effective. The F-16s will fly with the USAF until 2044 at least, providing a continued supplier support base for the next 25 years or more. I think LM has done a good job repackaging the F-16.

However none of these matter if attitudes and mindsets in India on the part of the decision makers don't change. That and the likelihood that half the fleet will eventually crash after India's induction.


The USAF is keeping the F-16 through 2044? As what, radar decoys?