Meet the F-21!

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madrat

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Unread post12 Mar 2019, 13:12

There is absolutely no proof any jets crossed the border other than a single MiG-21. Depending on authenticity of a dubious video, maybe an Su-30MKI. Otherwise any exchange that occurred last February was likely from their own sides of the border.

F-21 offers Rafale-lite for considerable savings. The premium for Rafale makes sense if you cannot afford numbers under LockMart's plan, but otherwise they have the caveat of building it. The engine of the F-21 surely is a leap forward from AL-31 that they build indigenous at the moment. But even this version they license build is considerably behind the curve of current Al-31 designs and retains known flaws.

I think the IAF is getting drunk on these luxuries. HAL may never recover.
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krieger22

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Unread post14 May 2019, 09:10

Lockheed is claiming that the F-21 will be unique to India: https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/lockhee ... in-2037095

In an interview to PTI, Mr Lall said the new combat jet is designed to operate across over 60 air force stations in India, and its key aspects include superior engine matrix, electronic warfare system and weapons carrying capacity.

"We will not sell this platform and the configuration to anyone in the world. It is a significant commitment by Lockheed Martin and it shows importance of India and importance of unique requirement India has," he said.


Mr Lall said if Lockheed wins the contract, it will not only set up a state-of-the-art F-21 manufacturing facility along with the Tata Group, but will also help India create an ecosystem for overall growth of the country's defence manufacturing.

On observation that the F-21 is similar to Lockheed's F 16 Block 70 combat jet, he said such a view is unfair as there have been significantly differences between the two platforms.

F-21 is different in terms of various aspects including its air frame, weapons capability, engine matrix and availability of engine options.

"As for example, you are now looking at 12,000 hours of service life air frame in F-21 versus 8,000 hours previously (F 16 Block 70). The additional 40 per cent weapons carrying capability is new in F-21 which was not there in F 16 Block 70. The electronic warfare system is uniquely developed for India," he added.

"Looking from a distance may make it look similar to F 16 Block 70, but it is different," he added.

Besides having a traditional boom-delivered refueling facility, the F 21 also has an extendable hose-and-drogue refuelling probe.

"This is the only fighter in the world which has both the capabilities," said Mr Lall, adding the cockpit has a new large area display.

"It is a modern cockpit and has a significant piece of ability to synthesise information. These are unique capabilities that we are not offering to other countries in the world," said the Lockheed executive.
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popcorn

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Unread post14 May 2019, 09:38

https://www-ndtv-com.cdn.ampproject.org ... ed-martin-


F-21 Jets Won't Be Sold To Others If India Decides To Buy It: Lockheed






F-21 Jets Won't Be Sold To Others If India Decides To Buy It: Lockheed
All India Press Trust of India
Vivek Lall, vice president of Strategy and Business Development for Lockheed Martin, says if F-21 wins the contract, then India will be integrated into the company's global fighter ecosystem, which is a USD 165 billion dollar market.
Updated : May 13, 2019 22:17 IST
Lockheed unveiled the F-21 during the Aero India show in Bengaluru in February (File Photo)

New Delhi: US aerospace giant Lockheed Martin says it will not sell its newly rolled out F-21 fighter jet to any other country if India places an order for 114 planes, in an offer aimed at pitching itself ahead of its US, European and Russian competitors for the mega deal.
Vivek Lall, vice president of Strategy and Business Development for Lockheed Martin, says if F-21 wins the contract, then India will be integrated into the company's global fighter ecosystem, which is a USD 165 billion dollar market.

In an interview to PTI, Mr Lall said the new combat jet is designed to operate across over 60 air force stations in India, and its key aspects include superior engine matrix, electronic warfare system and weapons carrying capacity.
Last edited by popcorn on 15 May 2019, 02:06, edited 2 times in total.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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edpop

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Unread post14 May 2019, 21:24

I LIKE THIS VERSION:
Attachments
f-21 kfir.jpg
Vietnam veteran (Combat Engineer) 1967
Retired from Chrysler Engineering
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basher54321

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Unread post12 Feb 2020, 19:07

Lockheed Martin will explore industrial opportunities for its F-21 programme with Navratna Defence PSU Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) under a newly signed Memorandum of Understanding.

The single-engine F-21 multi-role fighter is being pitched by Lockheed Martin to meet the requirements of the Indian Air Force. The company is strengthening and growing its partnerships with Indian industry to support its proposal.

Vivek Lall, vice president of stragety and business development, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics, said: ‘We are excited to begin exploring F-21 opportunities with BEL, one of India's leading aerospace and defence companies.

‘An F-21 partnership with India integrates Indian industry, including BEL, into the world's largest and most successful fighter aircraft ecosystem and demonstrates Lockheed Martin's commitment to India.’

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/air- ... -mou-f-21/

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madrat

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Unread post13 Feb 2020, 14:24

The Kfir will always be the first thing to come to mind when I see 'F-21'.

At the least they could have did something like integrate the targeting pod into the intake. Something to make it visually distinctive.
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vilters

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Unread post13 Feb 2020, 16:00

India is a large country.
The F-16XL with its increased fuel load would have been ideal for them. Add some motor with the 229 and you have a beast.

With the increase in SA and weapons capability "range and endurance" become more important then pure yanking and banking.

Modern warfare is mostly; See first, shoot first, and have the fuel to do so for a long time.
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garrya

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Unread post13 Feb 2020, 17:47

vilters wrote:India is a large country.
The F-16XL with its increased fuel load would have been ideal for them. Add some motor with the 229 and you have a beast.

With the increase in SA and weapons capability "range and endurance" become more important then pure yanking and banking.

Modern warfare is mostly; See first, shoot first, and have the fuel to do so for a long time.

F-110 GE132 can generate more thrust than F-100 PW229.
F-16XL will have better signature, supersonic acceleration, and instantaneous turn rate than normal F-16 but the sustain turn rate is worse
828FE1B8-C7FF-4676-82FC-33D746AD32A7.jpeg

E7F338AB-789E-4811-B6AC-66BDE8A30680.jpeg

FF3D2C54-71DC-4681-BD60-621CC090EEFE.jpeg

E9EF0050-5F14-41B7-8EF8-4A1373764123.jpeg

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/file ... flight.pdf
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steve2267

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Unread post13 Feb 2020, 20:57

garrya wrote:
vilters wrote:F-110 GE132 can generate more thrust than F-100 PW229.
F-16XL will have better signature, supersonic acceleration, and instantaneous turn rate than normal F-16 but the sustain turn rate is worse


Yes, but...

P&W has a an F100 variant that has been tested to 36,000lb using, essentially, the F119 fan on the front of the motor. It is limited to 32,000lb class on an F-16 due to the inlet size. It does require the big mouth inlet for the 32k figure.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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basher54321

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Unread post13 Feb 2020, 22:51

GE advertised the GE-129EFE with growth to presumably static 36,000lb years back with an increase in maintenance.

https://www.geaviation.com/press-releas ... leadership



A F100-PW-229A was advertised at over 37,000 lb around the same time - cant find the link though.


Call me Mr pessimistic but I am fairly certain the XL is not on the table.
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steve2267

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Unread post13 Feb 2020, 23:35

I'm a bit surprised more of the new F-16V orders do not opt for the F100-PW-220EEP. That engine is rated to 6000 cycles before it has to go in for scheduled maintenance -- something like 10 years before it sees the shop. That sounds pretty high to me. Is the F110-GE-129 that durable as well? (If so, then nevermind...)
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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gabi_johnson

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Unread post17 Feb 2020, 19:22

I hope for their sake they make the right decision, albeit I have to admit I'm not sure what that is (given their requirements).
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talkitron

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Unread post16 May 2020, 19:29

This is a developing story, but India might be moving away from buying Western planes in favor of its locally produced, light fighter, the Tejas.

https://www.deccanherald.com/business/india-seeks-local-warplanes-as-overseas-purchase-plan-stalls-837897.html
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weasel1962

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Unread post17 May 2020, 07:16

Indian requirements change all the time.

What is reality is that other than the 12 Su-30 squadrons, the remaining 18 sqns of Jaguars, Mirage 2000, Mig-29 and Mig-21s are in large part 35 years and older. Only 2 sqn of Rafales are confirmed to be bought. With the Tejas, they will induct 1 Tejas Mk 1 IOC, 1 Tejas Mk 1 FOC and 4 Tejas Mk 1A. Mk1A serial production is expected 2023, the first 1A squadron by 2025 and delivery of 83 Mk 1A by 2029. So does anyone expect IAF to only operate 12 Su-30, 2 Rafale and 6 Tejas squadrons (or 20 sqn) by 2030? Even if IAF somehow miraculously expanded Tejas production, it will still be way below 30 sqn without further investment.

The Mig-29s are showing their age. The Mig-21s are obsolete. The Jaguars are not going to be re-engined. The Mirage 2000s won't operate the Meteor. Even the Su-30s haven't been upgraded and still built on 90s tech.

The F404-GE-IN20 that equips the Tejas up to Mk1A is a 19000 lb class engine. Decent only offers a slight advantage to the RD-93 (18260lb). And the Pakistanis have more than a hundred JF-17 in service.
https://www.geaviation.com/sites/defaul ... Family.pdf
http://www.uecrus.com/eng/products/mili ... tion/rd93/

If MMRCA doesn't happen, then I see Su-30mki production continuing (with upgrades).
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weasel1962

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Unread post19 May 2020, 02:47

...which is why...

IAF chief contradicts cds rawat, says plan is to buy 114 foreign fighters besides LCA
https://theprint.in/defence/iaf-chief-c ... as/424468/
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