F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 19 Sep 2018, 19:54
by basher54321
SOFIA, Bulgaria (BulgarianMilitary.com), 19 September 2018,
Author: Boyko Nikolov

The U.S. concern and one of the biggest manufacturers of military equipment in the world – Lockheed Martin made its presentation on 18th September at Arena di Serdica Boutique Hotel in Sofia, and offered to the Bulgarian Government the purchase of the F-16 Block 72 fighter, known as Viper, learned BulgarianMilitary.com

The event was organized by the Atlantic Club of Bulgaria, the chairman of which is Dr. Solomon Passy and with the assistance of Mrs. Kalinka Kovacheva, who is a representative of Lockheed Martin for Bulgaria and Macedonia.

Source: https://bulgarianmilitary.com/f-16-bloc ... -bulgaria/

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 20 Sep 2018, 21:49
by piston
Not very good idea, IMHO

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 08 Oct 2018, 21:08
by peacepuma
mmmm..., lo mejor de la noticia es que el F-16 cada vez mas esta lejos de dejar de producirse, y demuestra que el caza 4 generación esta cada vez mas cerca de sus rivales de 5ta generación, el block 70/72 es un 4++ neto.

mmmm.....the best news is that the F-16 is increasingly far from stop producing, and shows that the fighter 4 generations this time closer to their rivals of 5th generation, the block 70/72 is a net 4+ + .

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 08 Oct 2018, 22:14
by viper12
¿habla inglés?

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 08 Oct 2018, 23:20
by ricnunes
peacepuma wrote:mmmm..., lo mejor de la noticia es que el F-16 cada vez mas esta lejos de dejar de producirse, y demuestra que el caza 4 generación esta cada vez mas cerca de sus rivales de 5ta generación, el block 70/72 es un 4++ neto.

mmmm.....the best news is that the F-16 is increasingly far from stop producing, and shows that the fighter 4 generations this time closer to their rivals of 5th generation, the block 70/72 is a net 4+ + .


Perhaps instead of simply using Google translator to translate your original post in Castilian/Spanish you should actually try to make posts in English. A Translation from a Latin language to English usually has a "goofy" result.
Anyway, imagine if I posted in Portuguese (which is currently my first language) or a Chinese came here posting in Mandarin or people from Russia posting in Russian than imagine the mess that all these forums would become, eh?

Regarding from your post proper, NO the 4th generation fighter aircraft are not getting anywhere closer to 5th gen fighter aircraft in order to rival with them. For example a F-16 Block 70 (or a Super Hornet, or a Typhoon, or a Rafale, etc...) would be a rival of a F-35 the same way a P-51 would rival with a F-86 or a F-86 would rival with a F-104 Starfighter, or resuming they don't rival since there aren't a match in terms of overall capabilities since again, they are generations apart.

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 09 Oct 2018, 22:38
by peacepuma
I understand, but your claim is very hysterical..., and You're wrong, a fighter 4++ , can rival a fighter 5 Generation.

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 09 Oct 2018, 23:20
by popcorn
You can try and pretty up a 4gen as much as you want but at the end of the day it's still a pig.

Screenshot_2018-10-10-06-15-52-485_com.miui.gallery.png

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 10 Oct 2018, 00:25
by ricnunes
LOL popcorn :mrgreen:

peacepuma wrote:I understand, but your claim is very hysterical..., and You're wrong, a fighter 4++ , can rival a fighter 5 Generation.


You can for sure feel free to believe in whatever you want. For all I care you can also believe in Santa Claus and his Leprechauns but this doesn't make such believes or claims as being facts/truth.

A gen 4+++++++++++ fighter (it doesn't matter how many pluses you put in front of the 4) has probably less chances in wining against a 5th gen fighter aircraft than a P-51 Mustang had in winning against a F-86 Sabre or a F-104 Starfighter had in winning against a F-4 Phantom (you see, different generations with always the newer one having the overwhelming advantage).
Everyone has their own (wet) dreams. Mine is winning the lottery, yours seems to be having a 4th gen fighter aircraft that has a similar/equal chance against a 5th gen fighter aircraft. Well at least my dream has the possibility of becoming real... :roll:

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 10 Oct 2018, 21:48
by peacepuma
teh viper 4 +/++, generation armed with JHMS AAM Python IV AND V can defeat a hunting F-35

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 10 Oct 2018, 23:08
by juretrn
peacepuma wrote:teh viper 4 +/++, generation armed with JHMS AAM Python IV AND V can defeat a hunting F-35

:lmao:
It doesn't matter if you keep adding pluses to F-16 or Su-27 or Rafale or Gripen or... it's still not fifth gen. (see popcorn's post above)
Even excluding signature reductions, there is no F-16 variant with comparable radar, IRST, ESM, comms and engines to the F-35. Good luck.

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 10 Oct 2018, 23:15
by popcorn
Still gonna be a pig...and a rather tasty one..

SAVE_20181011_061151.jpeg

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 11 Oct 2018, 12:11
by ricnunes
peacepuma wrote:teh viper 4 +/++, generation armed with JHMS AAM Python IV AND V can defeat a hunting F-35


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Sorry I couldn't resist.

And of course santa's sleigh can defeat both the 4++++++++++++++++++++ fighter aircraft and a F-35 at the same time in a blink of an eye, LOL :doh:

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 11 Oct 2018, 12:12
by ricnunes
popcorn wrote:Still gonna be a pig...and a rather tasty one..


LOL :mrgreen:

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 11 Oct 2018, 23:19
by peacepuma
Little I argue .., we all know that a F-16 ++ with electronics similar to the F-35 and Python IV-V, it manages to defeat even F-35, both can give maneuvers 9G and -3G, f-35 is top, not invincible to the F-35

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 12 Oct 2018, 13:37
by peacepuma
The F-35 Can't Beat The Plane It's Replacing In A Dogfight: Report
Tyler Rogoway 6/29/15

We’ve heard of significant shortcomings before with the fighter jet that’s supposed to be America’s future, but this is just as bad as it gets. The F-35 performed so dismally in a dogfight, that the test pilot remarked that the it had pretty much no place fighting other aircraft within visual range.

And it’s even worse than a mere maneuverability issue. At one point, the pilot’s helmet was so big he couldn’t even turn his head inside the cockpit.

That’s according to a scathing report obtained by our friends over at War Is Boring that details the results of visual range air-to-air engagement tests between an F-35A and an F-16C. The F-35, which the US Air Force, Navy, and Marines are expected to rely upon, in addition to the air arms of militaries across the world for at least the next few decades, was supposed to be better than its F-16 predecessor in all respects.

The F-35’s ability to compete against other fighter aircraft in a close-in dogfight, even against the decades old designs it looks to replace, has always been a contentious issue. Long ago, the F-35’s maneuverability was planned to far exceed that of fourth generation fighters. Over time, those claims eroded to the point where the troubled stealth jet is described as being “about as maneuverable as an F-16.”

The fact that the F-35 can carry its weapons and fuel internally was of course the major deciding factor in being able to make such a claim.

Keep in mind, all of this is anecdotal, but testing reports over almost the last decade have supported the fact that the F-35 was not nearly as nimble as many would like it to be. Still, all claims regarding its performance against other fighters in a dogfight remained largely academic, with only bits of data to compare in a vacuum.

Which is why the candid report described in the War Is Boring article finally gives us a good first hand account as to how capable – or incapable as it may be – the F-35 is in the within-visual-range fight.

The test pilot flying the F-35 makes it very clear that the new jet, even in its ideal configuration without any external stores, was no match against a Block-40 F-16C in a less-than-ideal configuration with a pair of under-wing fuel tanks:

Read more: https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-f ... 1714712248

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 12 Oct 2018, 13:58
by marsavian
That test F-35 was limited to 5g and had its FCS tuned after that and other tests to sharpen up pitch/yaw/AoA response. F-16s will not generally get into WVR range to do any dogfighting against an F-35 because they will be usually taken out at BVR range by an opponent that has already tracked and fired on them as numerous accounts have indicated in the last couple of years. F-16 may still have the better sustained turning ability but then it probably beats most other fighters on that score but it's pretty obvious that the F-35 has it beat on changing angles quickly in flight.

Can a production 3F F-35 lose to an F-16 WVR, sure just as the opposite could and does happen in current training, but the trick is to be able to get WVR of an F-35 in the first place which is the very hard part to do. The F-16 Block 70/72 will be fine for Bulgaria for its air defense needs against potential Russian aircraft but it would be at a SA disadvantage against any stealthy aircraft meaning it would start combat at a disadvantage by dodging BVR missiles. Dogfights are probably the most glamorous part of air combat but even historically the unseen stalking slasher has been more successful at it.

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 12 Oct 2018, 14:13
by ricnunes
popcorn wrote:
peacepuma wrote:Silly buralas, little I argue .., we all know that a F-16 ++ with electronics similar to the F-35 and Python IV-V, it manages to defeat even F-35, both can give maneuvers 9G and-3G, f-35 is top, not invincible to the F-35


Nope, not invincible.


Not invincible indeed (nothing is) but it's very, very unlikely that a 4+++++ gen fighter aircraft can defeat a F-35.
Or more precisely the advantage is all in the F-35's side.

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 12 Oct 2018, 14:28
by popcorn
peacepuma wrote:The F-35 Can't Beat The Plane It's Replacing In A Dogfight: Report

Tyler Rogoway
6/29/15 5:29pmFiled to: F-35 SAGA
.
LOL.. you're stuck in 2015 and the world has passed you by.

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 12 Oct 2018, 14:31
by ricnunes
peacepuma wrote:The F-35 Can't Beat The Plane It's Replacing In A Dogfight: Report

Tyler Rogoway
...
David Axe.


LOL, the only thing worse than having a post quoting Tyler Rogoway or a post quoting David Axe is having a post quoting both :doh:

That "episode" that you're quoting was already debated and explained to death here at f-16.net!
The short story about it, is exactly what marsavian posted so I won't repeat it (by using other words).

If you want to really know how a F-35 would face against a F-16 in terms of "raw performance" here's the real deal from a real Norwegian pilot which flew both the F-35 and the F-16 (the English part of the article is on the second and bottom half of the page):
https://nettsteder.regjeringen.no/kampf ... ed-so-far/

And note that he's taking about raw performance when pitting both aircraft. He's not even mentioning electronics/avionics that much.
You came up here claiming about the F-16 pilot having a HMD and IR guided missiles such as the Python IV/V which can be aimed by the helmet as some sort of a "silver bullet" against the F-35 but then do you forget that the F-35 has an even more advanced helmet of this kind which can aim AIM-9X and ASRAAM missiles.
Moreover do you forget (or simply don't know) what F-35's DAS is??
With DAS a F-35 pilot will always know where the F-16 is all around with a 360º spherical coverage, all of this if the F-16 ever happens to "get close" to a F-35.
DAS alone and I mean alone, already gives the F-35 a tremendous/BRUTAL advantage over any other aircraft (including of course the F-16) namely during a dogfight, then add the fact that the F-35 has better overall agility, stealth, sensor fusion, etc... and the chances that the F-16 could ever win against a F-35 are at best, very, very slim!

Now if you want to continue to believe in fairies, unicorns and leprechauns please be my guest! :roll:

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 12 Oct 2018, 15:26
by sprstdlyscottsmn
ricnunes wrote:Now if you want to continue to believe in fairies, unicorns and leprechauns please be my guest! :roll:

Guys, we need to stop the ad hominum attacks. We collectively view F-16.net as the finest military aviation forum because of our ability to discuss things in a civilized manner. There is never an excuse for personal attacks.

Did he make an claim that seems incredulous? yes. Did he try and back up his claim with outdated info? yes. Does this mean you throw personal attacks at him? No. You update the knowledge base of said person with more and more recent information and leave it up to them to process the new information. If they choose to not accept the new information then you have the power to ignore them.

Keep it professional and classy, that's all I'm asking. Even I have been wrong from time to time and I respond much better to being provided with better info than insults and name calling.

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 12 Oct 2018, 23:02
by ricnunes
sprstdlyscottsmn,

Honestly I don't think that I "performed" any kind an "ad hominum" attack. Please re-read again my posts.
What I mean was exactly this:
- If he still wishes to believe that an updated F-16 (or any other updated 4th gen fighter aircraft) has a "parity chance" against the F-35 than he may as well believe in fairies, unicorns and leprechauns. Honestly I fail to see this as being a personal and/or ad hominum attack. Even you admit that he made an incredulous claims but you know what was the main problem here? He didn't made one of such claims - He made four (4) of such claims in a row before even trying to back up such claims (feel free to re-read this thread since the beginning).
Then of course he used that well known already debated to death article about the F-35 flight control laws testing which was distorted by some media as being a sort of a "F-35 versus F-16 dogfight".

Again if you read with more care what I previously posted you could see (actually read) that I retorted to him by posting a credible and accurate information (from someone who really knows the subject) on how the F-35 actually performs against a F-16 (Hanche's article), this in order to "update his knowledge base", this using your own words.
So what I did in the end was basically to say to peacepuma that if he still wants to believe that aircraft like updated F-16s have parity against the F-35, this in face that his believes aren't true, he may as well believe in fairies, unicorns and leprechauns. If this is a personal attack than I can only imagine what would be an actual personal attack...

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 12 Oct 2018, 23:32
by sprstdlyscottsmn
ricnunes wrote:this in face that his believes aren't true, he may as well believe in fairies, unicorns and leprechauns. If this is a personal attack than I can only imagine what would be an actual personal attack...

I have been reading this from the beginning, and I was pleased with your response right up until this. While this is not the worst of the personal attacks I have seen here, it was still personal in nature and added nothing to the discussion. If anything such a statement is going to make peacepuma resentful toward your post and may hinder their ability to take in the new information you posted.

I expect excellence from the crowd here, and that may be unrealistic, but it is how I feel.

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 13 Oct 2018, 01:12
by popcorn
There is this fine line that can easily be.crossed between attacking a statement, which is always fair game, and the person making it.

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 13 Oct 2018, 14:33
by marsavian
Ricnunes, F-35s have virtually died in Red Flags WVR by say respawned F-16s so it's not an outrageous suggestion peacepuma is proposing. The whole point of stealth/5th gen is to stack the cards in your favor from the beginning at BVR so even if you go WVR it's your choice and because you are prosecuting an advantageous position. In a WVR merge melee numbers and tactics count probably as much if not more than the individual aircraft performance plus Hobs missiles reduce the margin for error even more.

4+ gen aircraft are relying on RWRs and IRSTs to reduce the stealth advantage so they have a better chance than original 4th gen aircraft with insensitive Radar/RWRs and no IRSTs who are literally blind against stealth aircraft relying solely on boresight RF/IR missiles and guns WVR. The odds are still against 4+ gen aircraft as these sensors are less reliable than radar in getting consistent target track solutions and the stealth of the opponent still has to be overcome by the small radar in the missile head meaning IR missiles at almost BVR/WVR range are the only long distance shot other aircraft can seriously get at stealth aircraft before requiring guns.

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 13 Oct 2018, 15:16
by ricnunes
marsavian wrote:Ricnunes, F-35s have virtually died in Red Flags WVR by say respawned F-16s so it's not an outrageous suggestion peacepuma is proposing.


The fact that F-35's "have been killed" by respawning F-16's clearly means that 4+ don't have a parity (and nothing near as close as it) against F-35's. You know, in real combat there's no such thing as "respawn". And that's basically my point.
Now what peacepuma claimed (and childishly so) and was that 4<insert how many extra pluses you which> had a parity chance with the F-35 which of course is <insert your politically correct word or not, here>.

Of course there's always a chance that a F-35 could be shot down by one of those 4(whatever pluses) aircraft due to some (F-35) pilot mistake and/or pure luck but then again for this to happen, how many of those 4(pluses) aircraft would have been shot down in the process??
For example, during Vietnam A-1 Skyraiders managed to shot down a Mig-17 but does this mean that the A-1 has parity with the Mig-17? Of course not! But if you believe otherwise then we have the fairies, unicorns, etc... and again that was my whole point here.

marsavian wrote:4+ gen aircraft are relying on RWRs and IRSTs to reduce the stealth advantage so they have a better chance than original 4th gen aircraft with insensitive Radar/RWRs and no IRSTs who are literally blind against stealth aircraft relying solely on boresight RF/IR missiles and guns WVR. The odds are still against 4+ gen aircraft as these sensors are less reliable than radar in getting consistent target track solutions and the stealth of the opponent still has to be overcome by the small radar in the missile head meaning IR missiles at almost BVR/WVR range are the only long distance shot other aircraft can seriously get at stealth aircraft before requiring guns.


RWRs and IRSTs are tools that the F-35 also have (and better so) so the improvements that those sensors may give to a 4+ gen aircraft against a F-35 will be marginal at best. Those sensors may indeed give 4+ gen fighter aircraft a major advantage against 4th gen fighter aircraft (imagine for example a F-16 Block 70 against the best variants of the Su-30) but again they will be pretty much hopeless against a F-35 and why?
For starters F-35 has stealth. This is a HUGE advantage that 4+ gen aircraft will never have, period. Then if a F-35 and a 4+ gen fighter aircraft happen to engage in a dogfight there's DAS thru which the F-35 pilot will always know where the opposing aircraft is all around the F-35 or more precisely will give the F-35 pilot a superior and much better Situational awareness, this even during a dogfight and dogfights are the vast majority of time won by the pilot with better situational awareness.

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 13 Oct 2018, 15:28
by ricnunes
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:While this is not the worst of the personal attacks I have seen here, it was still personal in nature and added nothing to the discussion.

I admit that I used a bit of irony on my post regarding the part that you are referring to but this was in no way a personal attack. I don't see using irony about opinions has being a personal attack but I guess we probably agree to disagree here.

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 13 Oct 2018, 18:04
by sprstdlyscottsmn
I can agree to agreeing to disagree. :D

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 14 Oct 2018, 22:20
by ricnunes
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:I can agree to agreeing to disagree. :D


LOL :mrgreen:

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 16 Oct 2018, 20:42
by piston
the whole conversation should be deleted.... completely offtop...

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 18 Dec 2018, 22:48
by basher54321
James Robinson, International Business Development F-16, Lockheed Martin Speech

It will come as no surprise to you that I am here primarily to talk to you about the F-16 Block 70 offer for the Bulgarian Air Force, and it will also not surprise you that I consider it to be the best aircraft in its class in the multi-role fighter aircraft competition. But as a former F-16 pilot myself, I may be accused of some bias.

------

FG18-21774_003_BulgariaF-16_Banner.png


F-16 Block 70 Advantages
So we know the aircraft has an excellent pedigree, but what about the future?

The Block 70 and 72 aircraft are the most advanced F-16s to date and a testament to the unbeaten track record of these fighter aircraft. The F-16 brings together superior aircraft performance and robust mission radius capability and air patrol times.

Today’s F-16 leverages proven and mature systems which are complemented by state-of-the-art developments in fighter aircraft technology. These include a systems suite that provides the pilot with an awareness of the combat space that is unmatched by any other 4th generation aircraft.

Lockheed Martin has also integrated technologies derived from the F-22 and F-35, including the Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) APG-83 radar that provides F-16s with 5th generation fighter radar capability – there is a 95 per cent software commonality with the F-35 radar and more than 70 per cent hardware commonality.

Amongst its many benefits, the AESA radar provides improved detection and tracking ranges, the ability to track 20 or more targets and the ability to conduct both air-to-air AND air-to-surface operations at the same time.

Its performance as a single-engine fighter is also unmatched – it achieves 50% better time to climb, its acceleration is 35 per cent better and it has a 50% greater air-frame life than its nearest competitors – the new F-16 Block 70 aircraft are now certified to 12,000 flight hours each, which is well beyond the original 8,000 hour lifespan.

The F-16 Block 70 has 40% greater combat air patrol time and nearly 50% greater weapons carrying capability over other single-engine fighter aircraft at a cost much lower than two-engine fighters. A range of innovative safety features are included in the F-16 including the one-of-a-kind Automatic Ground Collision Avoidance System – or Auto-GCAS – which has already saved the lives of seven F-16 pilots around the world.

The F-16’s performance, capability, low life-cycle costs, and ease of maintenance are all aspects that will make the difference between the success and failure of the mission, and there is no mission more critical than defending Bulgarian sovereign air space. The F-16 is the best choice for the Bulgarian Air Force pilots; providing them with unmatched maneuverability, advanced avionics, AESA radar, and the advanced Helmet Mounted Cueing System, will give your pilots unmatched situational awareness, and offensive capability against the enemy.

We anticipate potential for at least 400 new orders for this new breed of F-16, while also having four customers who are upgrading their existing F-16 fleets with these new technologies. As a result of this continued demand we have a new F-16 assembly facility in Greenville, South Carolina and we expect to see the F-16 flying into 2045 and beyond.[/i]

Source: https://amcham.bg/2018/11/21/f-16-block ... mpetition/

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 22 Dec 2018, 13:47
by basher54321
UPDATE 1-Bulgaria ready to choose F-16 fighter jets for its airforce

SOFIA, Dec 21 (Reuters) - Bulgaria’s defence ministry commission recommended on Friday that the government starts talks with the United States to buy new F-16 war planes to improve its compliance with NATO standards, the defence minister said on Friday.

The United States, Sweden and Italy have filed bids to supply Bulgaria with eight fighter jets aimed at replacing its ageing Soviet-designed MiG-29s, in a tender estimated at 1.8 billion levs ($1.05 billion).

Read more: https://www.reuters.com/article/bulgari ... 0004428676

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 23 Dec 2018, 23:38
by basher54321
Bulgaria announces F-16V Block 70 procurement to replace ageing MiG-29s
Dec 23, 2018

The Bulgarian Ministry of Defence (MoD) has announced a plan to procure eight F-16V Block 70 fighter jets aimed at replacing its ageing Soviet-designed MiG-29s.

On Friday, Bulgaria’s defense ministry commission recommended that the government starts talks with the United States to buy new F-16V Block 70 fighter aircraft to improve its compliance with NATO standards.

“The acquisition of a new multipurpose fighter such as F-16V Block 70 from the United States, equipped with the latest generation radar and weaponry will improve significantly the combat capabilities of the Bulgarian air forces,” Bulgaria’s Defense Minister Krasimir Karakachanov told reporters on Friday.

Read more: https://defence-blog.com/news/bulgaria- ... cXu1qbuBtI

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 24 Dec 2018, 02:15
by Corsair1963
Just show the opportunity that India missed. When the US and Lockheed Martin offered them the whole F-16 production line years ago. (MMRCA) As today India could be building new F-16's for all of these recent orders. (in addition to theirs) :bang:

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 16 Jan 2019, 16:28
by basher54321
SOFIA, Bulgaria (BulgarianMilitary.com) – Тoday, after holding a heated debate, Bulgaria’s Parliament, in the end, approved the government’s proposal to start negotiations with the U.S. on the purchase of new F-16V Block 70 fighters as well as the future contract to deviate from the Bulgarian requirements. The cabinet’s proposal was voted today as the first item on the agenda, and it was adopted with the key support of MRF MPs, after the parliamentary groups of BSP and PP Volya, Ataka and NFSB voted against, learned BulgarianMilitary.com.
This allows the negotiations between the Bulgarian Government and the U.S. on the purchase of the aircraft to be more flexible. The Defence Minister Krasimir Karakachanov explained that if they are unsuccessful, talks with Sweden on Gripen fighters, will be held.

Source: https://bulgarianmilitary.com/2019/01/1 ... -approval/

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 04 Jun 2019, 17:57
by basher54321
The U.S. State Department has approved a possible sale to Bulgaria of F-16C/D Block 70/72 fighter aircraft and related equipment for an estimated cost of up to $1.673 billion, the Pentagon said on Monday.

The Pentagon announced that the Government of Bulgaria has requested to buy eight F-16 C/D Block 70/72 aircraft with spare parts, weapons and engineering and logistical support services.

[...]

Source: https://defence-blog.com/news/u-s-state ... garia.html

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 05 Jun 2019, 09:31
by Lieven
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:We collectively view F-16.net as the finest military aviation forum because of our ability to discuss things in a civilized manner. There is never an excuse for personal attacks.

[...]

Keep it professional and classy, that's all I'm asking. Even I have been wrong from time to time and I respond much better to being provided with better info than insults and name calling.


you-are-awesome.jpg

:salute: Thank you Spurts! :salute:

We very much agree. Violators will be reported and will often be banned with little or no warning.

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 05 Jun 2019, 15:19
by sprstdlyscottsmn
:thumb:

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 05 Jun 2019, 22:25
by Patriot
It's Block 70, at least DSCA claims so

https://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/b ... ft-support

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 08 Jun 2019, 04:17
by blufoperations
This is a good buy for Bulgaria, would like to see them purchase more in the future.

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 24 Jun 2019, 03:49
by Fox1
Those MiG-29 jocks will think they've died and gone to heaven once they convert to the F-16 and get their hands on some Block 70 aircraft. I think they made a wise choice selecting the F-16. As a smaller nation with a smaller military budget, nothing gives you more bang for the buck than an F-16.

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 17:30
by mixelflick
There are so many game changing advantages 5th gen aircraft bring to the table, overwhelming advantages - even vs. so called, 4++ gen aircraft. Let's look at an example...

The Indians very effectively upgraded the old Mig-21 with HOBS missiles, along with a very effective jammer. They reportedly gave USAF F-15's fits during Cope India, some years back. Thus, an upgraded 3rd generation aircraft was able to make a go of it with a 4th gen bird. In fact, the most successful air to air platform in history.

The issue with the F-35 is that it has SO many ways to find you. There will be no "sneaking up" on it - from any quadrant. Another game changing advantage: Stealth. I spoke with an F-16 pilot recently who could not detect two F-35's at his 1 o'clock and 12 MILES AWAY - even AFTER ground control told him where to look! OK, it wasn't a block 70/72 he was flying - but so what? Let's say the block 70/72 can spot an F-35 at 3 times that distance - same outcome: The F-16 would have been eating AMRAAM's long before.

WVR? The F-16 is a great rate machine, albeit not so much if loaded down with weapons. The F-35 rates like a CLEAN F-16, WITH weapons, but can also point its nose like a SH. Assuming any competent pilot, he should be able to 1.) Beat the F-16 at its own game or, 2.) Beat it at the other end of the spectrum (high AOA).

So while I'll concede the F-16 block 70/72 is a big step up, there's simply no comparison to the F-35 (or certainly F-22). It's also grown heavier given all the new bells and whistles, robbing it of one of its forte's - a very high thrust to weight ratio. The list goes on and on, but you get my point. This has all been validated in large exercises. Simply ask yourself this: Would I want to send my son into combat in an F-16 block 70/72, or and F-35.

The chances your kid comes back alive go way up with the F-35...

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 12 Jul 2019, 19:39
by piston
mixelflick wrote:
The chances your kid comes back alive go way up with the F-35...


Bulgaria is not a first class NATO member (too much russian spies), have not the economy to buy fancy stuff, and it is dangerous to jump from soviet 80's era fighter in a 5-th generation platform.... SAAB offered 10 JAS-39 without ammo but I guess US pushed bulgarians to buy 8 F-16 with some A-A ammo....

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 18 Jul 2019, 12:26
by elshad
Is F-16V the official name for all Block 70/72s? That press release still calls them C/D. It doesn't seem to follow the previous naming conventions of having different letters for single and two-seaters. Two-seat Block 70/72s should be called F-16W!

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 18 Jul 2019, 16:27
by sprstdlyscottsmn
The change is enough that it should be F/G. V is just a reference to Viper.

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 19 Jul 2019, 02:03
by hythelday
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:The change is enough that it should be F/G. V is just a reference to Viper.


Apparently some thought F-21 is even more fitting! :doh:

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 19 Jul 2019, 02:51
by rheonomic
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:The change is enough that it should be F/G. V is just a reference to Viper.


Isn't F already used (at least unofficially, not sure about officially) for the 2-bag block 60?

Re: F-16 Block 72 offered to Bulgaria?

Unread postPosted: 19 Jul 2019, 06:17
by sprstdlyscottsmn
Maybe? G/H then?