F-16 jet crashes at base outside Las Vegas

Unread postPosted: 04 Apr 2018, 23:32
by awsome
F-16 jet crashes at base outside Las Vegas

Re: another jet down

Unread postPosted: 05 Apr 2018, 05:59
by Boman
Thunderbirds jet confirmed - pilot sadly killed :(
http://news3lv.com/news/local/f-16-cras ... -las-vegas

Re: another jet down

Unread postPosted: 05 Apr 2018, 07:44
by saberrider
Signs of the aiging fleet.

Re: another jet down

Unread postPosted: 05 Apr 2018, 10:03
by popcorn
R.I.P.

Re: another jet down

Unread postPosted: 05 Apr 2018, 10:33
by weasel1962
Not a good week as this is following 2 accidents involving a CH-53E (4 casualties) and AV-8 crash (pilot manage to eject) on Tuesday and an F-18 crash last month (which is like the 14th Hornet major accident in 2 years). My condolences to the families and the services.

Re: another jet down

Unread postPosted: 05 Apr 2018, 13:22
by pfo
weasel1962 wrote:Not a good week as this is following 2 accidents involving a CH-53E (4 casualties) and AV-8 crash (pilot manage to eject) on Tuesday and an F-18 crash last month (which is like the 14th Hornet major accident in 2 years).

And F-15 today (2 casualties) .

Re: another jet down

Unread postPosted: 05 Apr 2018, 14:11
by Boman
The F-15 was a Korean F-15K. Doesn't make it any less tragic.

Re: another jet down

Unread postPosted: 05 Apr 2018, 15:32
by Gamera
[quote="Boman"]The F-15 was a Korean F-15K. Doesn't make it any less tragic.[/quote]

www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2018/04/205_246800.html

Jet fighter crash kills 2 pilots

2018/04/05

An Air Force jet crashed into a mountain in Chilgok, North Gyeongsang Province, 216 kilometers southeast of Seoul, Thursday, killing two pilots, the Air Force said.

Re: another jet down

Unread postPosted: 05 Apr 2018, 20:06
by krorvik
saberrider wrote:Signs of the aiging fleet.


Too early to make that call - even if the fleet is aging.

Blue skies Major... :salute:

Re: another jet down

Unread postPosted: 05 Apr 2018, 20:24
by Gums
Salute!

Scanner traffic suggests it was a mid air and other plane made it back to Nellis or Creech.

There are three show maneuvers that could involve the solo pilots and a potential mid air. Then there are some rejoins that are very tricky. We shall see, but prolly no airplane problems involved.

Gums sends...

Re: another jet down

Unread postPosted: 05 Apr 2018, 20:57
by neurotech
http://airshowstuff.com/v4/2018/thunder ... reech-afb/
Maj. Stephen Del Bagno is the Slot Pilot for the U.S. Air Force Air Demonstration Squadron, flying the No. 4 jet. He is a 2005 graduate of Utah Valley State University, and commissioned from Officer Training School, Maxwell AFB, Ala. in 2007. Before joining the Air Force, Del Bagno was a civilian flight instructor, corporate pilot, skywriter, and a banner tow pilot. He enjoys snowboarding, water sports and spending time with family and friends. Prior to joining the Thunderbirds, Del Bagno served as an F-35A Evaluator Pilot and Chief of Standardization and Evaluation, 58th Fighter Squadron, Eglin AFB, Fla. He has logged more than 3,500 total flight hours in over 30 different aircraft, with 1,400 hours as an Air Force pilot. Del Bagno is in his first season with the team and hails from Valencia, Calif.

:salute: RIP Maj. Del Bagno

Re: another jet down

Unread postPosted: 06 Apr 2018, 16:14
by Gamera
aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=208798

Type:
Lockheed Martin F-16C Fighting Falcon

Owner/operator:
USAF Air Demonstration Squadron Thunderbirds

Registration:
"4"
92-3880

Re: another jet down

Unread postPosted: 07 Apr 2018, 00:05
by vilters
R.I.P.

I only had the privilege to see them perform once, and a long time ago, (Kleine Brogel-Belgium), but that was one of the most professional groups I even had the honor to be in close contact with.

Unfortunately, these sad things happen.
My thoughts and prayers go to the family and friends involved.

Re: another jet down

Unread postPosted: 07 Apr 2018, 02:02
by bothomas
Gamera wrote:aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=208798

Type:
Lockheed Martin F-16C Fighting Falcon

Owner/operator:
USAF Air Demonstration Squadron Thunderbirds

Registration:
"4"
92-3880


Definitely NOT 92-3880. This jet is still at depot!

Re: another jet down

Unread postPosted: 07 Apr 2018, 04:53
by 229guy
This is sad news. Praying for the family.

Again 2 casualties, AH-64E, Kentucky.

Unread postPosted: 07 Apr 2018, 20:16
by pfo
pfo wrote:
weasel1962 wrote:Not a good week as this is following 2 accidents involving a CH-53E (4 casualties) and AV-8 crash (pilot manage to eject) on Tuesday and an F-18 crash last month (which is like the 14th Hornet major accident in 2 years).

And F-15 today (2 casualties) .

Again 2 casualties, AH-64E, Kentucky.

Re: another jet down

Unread postPosted: 09 Apr 2018, 01:57
by weasel1962
Military times' take on the issue

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your ... ive-years/

No mention of aging fleet.

Re: another jet down

Unread postPosted: 17 Apr 2018, 12:05
by Gamera
http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/201804 ... t-continue

Tributes to late Thunderbirds pilot continue

2018/04/12

Immediately prior to reporting to the Thunderbirds at Nevada’s Nellis Air Force Base last year, Del Bagno had served at Eglin for two years as an evaluator pilot for the F-35A, the Air Force version of the next-generation stealth fighter jet.
Del Bagno was the first F-35 pilot chosen for the Thunderbirds

Re: F-16 jet crashes at base outside Las Vegas

Unread postPosted: 17 Apr 2018, 22:32
by Patriot
Do we know anything about the circumstances of this crash?

Re: F-16 jet crashes at base outside Las Vegas

Unread postPosted: 18 Apr 2018, 09:21
by Gamera
Anything about the circumstances?

https://forums.radioreference.com/milit ... s-afb.html

Rumour: mid-air collision with wingman, and wingman RTB safely.

Re: F-16 jet crashes at base outside Las Vegas

Unread postPosted: 22 Apr 2018, 21:16
by kingjohnc
There is no truth to that rumor

Re: F-16 jet crashes at base outside Las Vegas

Unread postPosted: 23 Apr 2018, 19:30
by frogs
kingjohnc wrote:There is no truth to that rumor



It did involve two vipers. Unless 3881 is going through a Diesel Brothers mod at Creech.

-Frogs

Re: F-16 jet crashes at base outside Las Vegas

Unread postPosted: 24 Apr 2018, 16:39
by durahawk
frogs wrote:
kingjohnc wrote:There is no truth to that rumor



It did involve two vipers. Unless 3881 is going through a Diesel Brothers mod at Creech.

-Frogs


Or it could be in phase. Stop perpetuating rumors.

Re: F-16 jet crashes at base outside Las Vegas

Unread postPosted: 24 Apr 2018, 20:17
by Gums
Salute!

There must be something that we "proles" are not cleared for.

The major episode 30 years ago was on the news within an hour. The investigation results were public a year later or sooner.

The wing tip scrape a few years back was on the news within hours.

The flameout at Pete Field was on the radio within an hour amd we saw photos of the fellow in the chute the next day. Of course, we also saw the guy meeting Bronco.
++++++++
A wing scrape or bump ain't that bad, and there's only a few segments of the maneuvers that can have serious mid-air consequences.

I recall a few possibilities, such as the "Bon Ton Roulle", and if one screws up, then it's possible to hit another. Then the merge after the bomb burst, and that one would likely have more than one plane down. And then there are a few rejoins after several maneuvers, so that's a possibility.

Something smells here.

Gums opines...

Re: F-16 jet crashes at base outside Las Vegas

Unread postPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 17:52
by ruderamronbo
U.S. Air Force Thunderbirds 2 hrs ·Facebook

Krajicek to return as Thunderbird #4, Show Season 2018 Update

NELLIS AIR FORCE BASE, Nev. - Maj. Nick "Khan" Krajicek has been named as the U.S. Air Force Air Demonstration Squadron's Thunderbird 4/Slot Pilot for the remainder of the 2018 show season.

Krajicek is an experienced Thunderbird alumnus who performed as the Slot Pilot during the 2016 and 2017 show seasons.

"We're grateful to have Khan coming back to the team," said Lt. Col. Kevin Walsh, Thunderbird 1, Commander/Leader. "His experience and familiarity with our team's mission and the demonstration profile make him the right choice as we safely make our way back on the road to recruit, retain and inspire once more."

To facilitate Krajicek's requalification training, the Thunderbirds' participation at the Charleston Air Show and the Fort Lauderdale Air Show have been canceled.

The team's participation in the Laughlin AFB Air Show and the Air Power over Hampton Roads air shows are being evaluated and are dependent on the team's readiness to perform a safe 6-ship aerial demonstration.

Krajicek has logged more than 3,400 flight hours as a military pilot, with more than 650 hours of combat experience. He flew UH-60 Blackhawks in the Army, is an F-16C/D Fighting Falcon instructor pilot and commissioned into the Air Force in 2004.

Re: F-16 jet crashes at base outside Las Vegas

Unread postPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 18:08
by Gums
Thanks, Rude.

Looks good, and the Blues have had to do this before in order to complete most of the season. This one was early enuf to have a great season.

I still wish to see what happened, having flown with so many Birds and taught some.

Gums sends...

Re: F-16 jet crashes at base outside Las Vegas

Unread postPosted: 05 May 2018, 18:07
by hoghandler
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 7550469245


Kind of odd they would post this since the data base shows this as the Mishap Aircraft.

Re: F-16 jet crashes at base outside Las Vegas

Unread postPosted: 08 May 2018, 05:05
by bothomas
hoghandler wrote:https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156307854164246&id=267550469245


Kind of odd they would post this since the data base shows this as the Mishap Aircraft.

Exactly! They even show the tail number in the pictures too. One previous comment mentions it might have been 3881.

Re: F-16 jet crashes at base outside Las Vegas

Unread postPosted: 08 May 2018, 11:43
by Boman
One of the pic’s in the article shows a dual seater too, so don’t rely on the pics to be current,

Re: F-16 jet crashes at base outside Las Vegas

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2018, 22:45
by bothomas
Boman wrote:One of the pic’s in the article shows a dual seater too, so don’t rely on the pics to be current,

The jet flown IS 3880. I worked on it at depot at Hill

Re: F-16 jet crashes at base outside Las Vegas

Unread postPosted: 16 Oct 2018, 22:02
by ruderamronbo
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your ... -maneuver/

My usual source for reports, Air Force Magazine, hasn't posted the full report yet

http://www.airforcemag.com/AircraftAcci ... ?Year=2018

The report is available here but I can't get to it... https://www.nellis.af.mil/News/Article/ ... -released/

https://afjag.usaf.afpims.mil/publicmed ... REPORT.PDF


"Thunderbirds pilot Maj. Stephen Del Bagno temporarily lost consciousness during a high G-force maneuver and was incapacitated right before a fatal crash in April.

The Air Force on Tuesday released the report on the investigation into the April 4 crash at the Nevada Test and Training Range near Nellis Air Force Base."

:salute:

Re: F-16 jet crashes at base outside Las Vegas

Unread postPosted: 16 Oct 2018, 23:46
by hoghandler

Re: F-16 jet crashes at base outside Las Vegas

Unread postPosted: 19 Oct 2018, 17:34
by Gums
Salute!

What a sad accident report. I am surprised by several numbers.

I have not talked with a slot pilot in years, but may/should in order to allay my feelings
+++++++++++++++++++++=
I was present in a flight when we had our first g-loc in the Viper. The pilot was a stud and back seat IP recovered the jet. It departed but did not stabilize in a deep stall, so IP recovers while calling "knock it off". and then it happened again with one of our first B-course studs ( no prior fighter time but a FAIP). The HUD film from that episode has been on TV several times. Our boss called all of us in to the main brief room that afternoon and we watched the film.

So a few weeks later I am with another of the "B' course studs and walla! Bottom of an escape and looking over shoulder at "bandit" high above when the gees reduce. I think the guy is extending to gain some energy. Then I look forward and his head is bouncing off the canopy rail. "Knock it off" on radio, and "hey! talk to me." on intercom. Ee went home and spread the word. Soon lost a cadre member who had been re-assigned to the weapons school and the HUD film showed tha classic high gee within a few seconds and then 1 gee +/- depending upon his trim.

So I have seen this, and I don't know why I never had it myself, since I had great HUD film of reaching 8.7 gee within about 3 seconds on a break turn. Guess it's the grunt and clench early, then yank. Plus I was older.

The gee-loc occurs most of the time due to onset rate and not absolute gees. Before the Eagle and Viper we could not get to those gees real fast. So you had grey out, tunnel vision and blackout. But gee-loc was a different bear. You went lights out and were out of it for many seconds.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
I am surprised at the gees for some portions of the maneuver ( previous flight data recordings). 5 or 6 gees seems reasonable to me for many portions of the maneuvers, but not many. Seems 4 or 5 gees would suffice 95% of the time unless you were late or the flight path of other members required a sudden yank.

I am also surprised at the negative gee numbers.

Oh well, a sad thing and I hope the Birds look at the practice film to spot any trends.

Gums sends...

Re: F-16 jet crashes at base outside Las Vegas

Unread postPosted: 19 Oct 2018, 18:51
by outlaw162
Isn't this what Auto-GCAS is for?

Re: F-16 jet crashes at base outside Las Vegas

Unread postPosted: 19 Oct 2018, 19:36
by Gums
Salute!

I think they can turn it off, just like the Cat 3 FLCS laws back in the day.

I also point out that the "recovery" gizmo is prolly set for very conservative numbers, and does not allow for the "x" gees in "y" seconds and "z" AoA limits.

i still have troubel with the gee numbers for the previous 20 or so missions.

Lastly, I seem to remember the first Viper rejoins after the bomb burst, and it was out in front of the viewing stand, but different than the one depicted here. And back in the previous aircraft it seemed that the rejoin was away from the crowd and the solo pilots kept viewers busy.

Gums sends...

Re: F-16 jet crashes at base outside Las Vegas

Unread postPosted: 20 Oct 2018, 06:08
by durahawk
outlaw162 wrote:Isn't this what Auto-GCAS is for?


I've heard the OFP version that the Thunderbirds use is an older version without AGCAS because the newer software didn't give them the rudder authority they needed.

This is frustrating for those that developed AGCAS because a separate "airshow mode" was separate set of fly up rules developed specifically for the Thunderbirds.

Re: F-16 jet crashes at base outside Las Vegas

Unread postPosted: 20 Oct 2018, 16:06
by outlaw162
One would think the ramifications of a special AGCAS mode (or lack of) would have been mentioned in the report summary....maybe I missed that.

Haven't been to a show for awhile, but in the past I recall the narrator used to make the point that the maneuvers and skills being demonstrated were representative of the same maneuvers a typical fighter guy would perform day to day....

I guess that's not true anymore.

Re: F-16 jet crashes at base outside Las Vegas

Unread postPosted: 21 Oct 2018, 00:35
by Gums
Salute!

Unless the FLCS laws for yaw are vastly different, the rudder trim is a deflection and not a variable, I also doubt that the total deflection is less than what we had 40 years ago.

When I talked with the original Viper T-Birds, the wingies said they trimmed the nose into the formation just a tad. I think "Yum Yum" , #4 , suggested a slight forward trim, and that would work lots better than the older planes' trim because it would be a constant gee regardless of airspeed.

Not sure if the "break X" is used anymore, but I guarantee it would have been flashing just about the time he lost it and well before he started to make concious stick inputs. Fer chrissakes, he was diving down at a very steep angle. The HUD tape would have shown this.

FInally, that rejoin sequence for all the members is certainly not something the rank-and-file jocks ever try. And the flight path by #4 is definitely the toughest and involves that split-s and prolly more gees than any other position. Still having trouble understnding over 8 gees so early coming down the back side.

Well, threw the nickel on the grass last spring, and I hope we don't ever see another loss like this one.

Gums sends...

Re: F-16 jet crashes at base outside Las Vegas

Unread postPosted: 21 Oct 2018, 22:49
by hoghandler
Just watched a few videos on youtube showing the manuver done during some airshows. I got a better understanding of what the report says happened and what the videos show how manuver supposed to go. Really sad that this happened and it happened so fast.