India to build F-16 Block 70

Unread postPosted: 19 Jun 2017, 17:44
by neptune
Lockheed Martin commits to building F-16 in India

19 June, 2017
SOURCE: Flight Daily News
BY: Beth Stevenson

Lockheed Martin has committed to manufacturing the F-16 in India should it win the air force’s single-engine fighter competition, and has signed a deal with Tata Advanced Systems to carry out this work in-country. A letter of intent was signed between the two companies at the show, which could lead to manufacture of Block 70 variants of the fourth-generation fighter. It is being pitched against the Saab Gripen for the program, which expects to see multiple hundreds of units purchased. Orlando Carvalho, executive vice-president of Lockheed’s aeronautics division, told Flight Daily News: “We have been working with our government and the Indian government on the recapitalization of their fighter force. “As part of that, what we are offering to the Indian government is to build the aircraft in India. We believe it makes sense to move the F-16 production line there.” Lockheed and Tata already have a joint venture to develop the empennage for the C-130 transport in India, which Carvalho says has so far “gone very well”, adding that “we’re now looking to extend that into the F-16 market”.

At the end of 2017 Lockheed will finish deliveries of Iraq’s 36 examples, at which point the company will move manufacture of the F-16 from Fort Worth, Texas, to Greenville, South Carolina, allowing production of the F-35 at Fort Worth. “We will use this until we can move the F-16 production line over to India,” Carvalho says. “The fact that we’ve done this so many times before [transfer of F-16 production], we feel very comfortable doing this in India.” Other tangible requirements for the F-16 include Bahrain, Colombia and Indonesia, all of which have expressed interest in new-build examples that could be built via the proposed Indian deal. Bahrain is the most promising of these, with the necessary authorizations currently being worked through the US State Department, Carvalho says.

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -i-438427/

:)

Re: India to build F-16 Block 70

Unread postPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 22:05
by Lieven
Not the first time there are rumors like that. ;-)

Indian companies (HAL, TAT) to build F-16s? (June 20, 2006)
India to buy and manufacture F-16I? (March 22, 2007)

And anyway, this could still take a while before it can become a fact:
Lockheed Martin signs pact with Tata to build F-16 block 70s in India

Re: India to build F-16 Block 70

Unread postPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 23:12
by popcorn
Just marketing fluff. Saab and LM will have to engage a local partner(s) to compete for the order.

Re: India to build F-16 Block 70

Unread postPosted: 21 Jun 2017, 09:38
by Corsair1963
Yes, the Indian Government has not approved the purchase of the F-16 or any other fighter for that matter.... :doh:

Re: India to build F-16 Block 70

Unread postPosted: 21 Jun 2017, 10:08
by laos
There is still a question of what the word “Build in India” mean. If we look at the past it can mean partially assembling. So the Greenville plant will build parts, US manufactures will produce parts and Tata plant will only assemblies it and Lockheed guy will test fly it.
With sadness I see that a country with such terrible poverty as India is spending so much on military and the explanation is that it’s afraid of a much smaller and poorer country like Pakistan. The process of buying fighter jets in India is like a soap opera. An neverending story about waiting for decisions, making decisions and cancelling them. Probably a waste of paper if someone had to write article about this.

Re: India to build F-16 Block 70

Unread postPosted: 23 Jun 2017, 00:34
by popcorn
If India is serious about building on it's strategic relationship with the US then selecting the F-16 would be a good move.

https://news.usni.org/2017/06/22/india- ... more-26390

Retired Lt. Gen. Amil Ahuja, former deputy chief of India’s Integrated Defence Staff, pointed to the 2015 Defense Technology and Trade Initiative as a way to strengthen that relationship and have the United States to be that strategic partner in co-producing new fighter aircraft, helicopters, unmanned aerial vehicles, submarines and fighting vehicles.

“It’s a flexible mechanism,” not a treaty or a law, he said. “The aim was to resolve process issues” over technology transfer, joint research and development and joint production. For the United States, it provides a partner in “the development of capability at no cost to the taxpayer.” Ahuja pointed to Washington’s earlier work with Tokyo and Seoul in developing their defense industries as an example of what he was talking about.

Understanding the risk of “what are they going to do with the technology,” he added in the discussion at the Washington, D.C. think that that India understands the United States’ and its defense industry’s concerns about “your crown jewels” being at risk in such an arrangement, but “please listen to the largest buyer.”

Re: India to build F-16 Block 70

Unread postPosted: 23 Jun 2017, 01:56
by weasel1962
The Americans may find out that getting India as a customer may sometimes end up as a double-edged sword. A once formidable reputation of an aircraft can go down the drain in a jiffy.

Re: India to build F-16 Block 70

Unread postPosted: 25 Jun 2017, 04:00
by PhillyGuy
Well it's better than offering them the F-35, which LM & US Gov should not do for a number of obvious reasons. And if we can "trust" Pakistan with F-16s, why not India? Especially since India has a pretty serious and long standing historical territorial dispute with China. Anything the US can do to strengthen India and cause China to divert attention and assets from the Pacific and toward that issue/region can only be a positive. Enemy of my enemy sort of thing. And who knows, with such capability, we might embolden the Indians to return the adventurism upon the ever adventurous Chinese, and in the process give us some hard proof that even a modern F-16 is still superior to anything the Chinese are flying. Now wouldn't that be something.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... g-4688526/

I believe the F-16 is capable of shooting down helicopters, UAVs and reconnaissance aircraft, yes? :lol:

Re: India to build F-16 Block 70

Unread postPosted: 29 Jun 2017, 19:47
by mixelflick
Hard to see this happening

I have no doubt the F-16 will make a good showing, but the logistical nightmare of maintaining so many Russian/Western types..it must be laborious. Then again, they're not an expeditionary air force, are they? The only time I've seen them traveling was first to the UK to tangle with Typhoons and then to the U.S. at Red Flag.

It's probably more likely than the SH though. Doubt Boeing would be OK with having local production or technology transfers. Frankly, I'm surprised LM is willing to do it..

Re: India to build F-16 Block 70

Unread postPosted: 30 Jun 2017, 16:51
by thadutchman
boilermaker wrote:What lockheed needs to develop with Israel and India is a sort of semi robot f-16 for the poor excuse of goat humper pilots in the mid east.

They can call themselves fighter pilots while computers and our operators on the ground do most of the babysitting/flying the systems for them they do not know how to use or maintain. Then you give them their chocolate wings and seals and they can call themselves Obama-pilots.


My man, That was lowkey racist of you! I agree that it's a slippery decision to tech transfer to India, they are not the best at keeping tech close to their chest at all. On top of that I saw how "well" they performed at RF. It was show pony all over the place.

Re: India to build F-16 Block 70

Unread postPosted: 30 Jun 2017, 21:46
by madrat
Let's face it, these excursions into 'competitions' is solely their elites playing the public to fornicate their taxpayers. Absolutely nothing has been sincere knowing full well nobody will give them anything meaningful at their ridiculous price points. The money keeps flowing and their political class lives high on the hot.

Re: India to build F-16 Block 70

Unread postPosted: 03 Jul 2017, 14:31
by thadutchman
madrat wrote:Let's face it, these excursions into 'competitions' is solely their elites playing the public to fornicate their taxpayers. Absolutely nothing has been sincere knowing full well nobody will give them anything meaningful at their ridiculous price points. The money keeps flowing and their political class lives high on the hot.


Agreed

Re: India to build F-16 Block 70

Unread postPosted: 03 Jul 2017, 18:08
by neptune
[quote="thadutchman... Absolutely nothing has been sincere knowing full well nobody will give them anything meaningful at their ridiculous price points. .[/quote]

...in this case, the F-16 line is moving...somewhere...FW is out of room except for the F-35.

India could get a better deal if they are sincere about building any of these legacy fighter a/c.
:)

Re: India to build F-16 Block 70

Unread postPosted: 04 Jul 2017, 10:18
by weasel1962
Part of the issue is sky high expectations on the part of certain Indians. They want superior fighters for peanuts, built on the backs of low cost workers. The reality is that technology is expensive and highly protected by manufacturers. Producing 100+ units but expecting more than any others who have produced the remaining 4600… Low cost assembly will not result in a high-tech aircraft. High tech owners will not part their technology especially at low cost. Same complaints India had after decades of Sukhoi assembly will surface after MMRCA assembly i.e. little tech transfer etc.

If self development of fighters were that easy, the Tejas or the light combat aircraft would have been in service already with a local engine (again same issue with the Arjun tank). There seems to be some denial on the hard lessons of the LCA development.

Decisions based on emotions and/or financial naivety lead to the small Rafale order coupled with yet another decade of delays in closing what the IAF thinks is a large capability gap (7 man cricket). Hard reality would have lead to a logical result long ago. What are these hard realities?

Where has the Gripen been foreign assembled? Sure Saab can probably do the job in India (with cost overruns, delays etc) but if one takes a risk management approach, another manufacturer has done it in Korea, Turkey, Netherlands, Belgium already. An India manufacturing plant is already a minefield for most companies in the world to set up without having to add the challenge of inexperience but this is India.

The reality is all fighter candidates that India is choosing are obsolete, like the dot matrix printer. But like the dot matrix printer, it still has a place in this world and can serve a specific purpose subject to a limited useful life. The fighter candidates are not lemons today but they do have a useful life that is expiring due to advancing technology. There is a limit to how much technology can be continually integrated into legacy fighters. It is interesting to see how long more India can drag this out.

Re: India to build F-16 Block 70

Unread postPosted: 07 Jul 2017, 03:52
by discofishing
thadutchman wrote:
boilermaker wrote:What lockheed needs to develop with Israel and India is a sort of semi robot f-16 for the poor excuse of goat humper pilots in the mid east.

They can call themselves fighter pilots while computers and our operators on the ground do most of the babysitting/flying the systems for them they do not know how to use or maintain. Then you give them their chocolate wings and seals and they can call themselves Obama-pilots.


My man, That was lowkey racist of you! I agree that it's a slippery decision to tech transfer to India, they are not the best at keeping tech close to their chest at all. On top of that I saw how "well" they performed at RF. It was show pony all over the place.


LOL! Which race are we talking about over there? I think that was prejudiced against anyone who would fornicrape goats. Besides, India is not part of the middle east and not too many people would imply Israel's fighter pilots suck. Yeah, the RF thing is pretty well known. So many of "those countries" just have armed, supersonic flying clubs for the royalty. The people training their pilots and fixing their aircraft are mostly scumbag, pig eating infidel westerners. Aloha snack-bar!!!!!! :devil:

Re: India to build F-16 Block 70

Unread postPosted: 10 Jul 2017, 13:57
by knuckles
discofishing wrote:
thadutchman wrote:
boilermaker wrote:What lockheed needs to develop with Israel and India is a sort of semi robot f-16 for the poor excuse of goat humper pilots in the mid east.

They can call themselves fighter pilots while computers and our operators on the ground do most of the babysitting/flying the systems for them they do not know how to use or maintain. Then you give them their chocolate wings and seals and they can call themselves Obama-pilots.


My man, That was lowkey racist of you! I agree that it's a slippery decision to tech transfer to India, they are not the best at keeping tech close to their chest at all. On top of that I saw how "well" they performed at RF. It was show pony all over the place.


LOL! Which race are we talking about over there? I think that was prejudiced against anyone who would fornicrape goats. Besides, India is not part of the middle east and not too many people would imply Israel's fighter pilots suck. Yeah, the RF thing is pretty well known. So many of "those countries" just have armed, supersonic flying clubs for the royalty. The people training their pilots and fixing their aircraft are mostly scumbag, pig eating infidel westerners. Aloha snack-bar!!!!!! :devil:

And Pakistanis....

Re: India to build F-16 Block 70

Unread postPosted: 19 Jul 2017, 22:58
by leslie.recruiterngc
I'd rather support the engineers who want to stay stateside... We're doing at a lot of recruiting at my company and now we're going to target F-16 professionals because of this vulnerability they might be feeling with all the press.

Re: India to build F-16 Block 70

Unread postPosted: 22 Jul 2017, 15:56
by milosh
thadutchman wrote:My man, That was lowkey racist of you! I agree that it's a slippery decision to tech transfer to India, they are not the best at keeping tech close to their chest at all. On top of that I saw how "well" they performed at RF. It was show pony all over the place.


Yeap. This is what Russians need to deal. Indians would change type of oil without asking anyone. Then they are forced to ground whole Su-30 fleet and then they bitch how plane isn't reliable even though other users didn't have that type of malfunction at all (do I need to say they didn't change oil type without asking engine manufacturer).

Or they would leave Su-30 on open for days on hot Indian sun, which would damage french avionics in cockpit.

No wonder why Dasso didn't want to gave them warranty on "made in India" Rafales.

Re: India to build F-16 Block 70

Unread postPosted: 11 Nov 2017, 09:55
by weasel1962
Looks like LM may have dodged a bullet. Indian Government has asked the IAF to cancel the procurement in favor of the LCA aka Tejas. The IAF naturally came back swinging explaining the well known shortfalls of the Tejas including its short legs, conveniently leaving out the bits where the Tejas can carry tanks or conduct air refuelling.

However the request is a sure sign that the Government is not supportive of the buy i.e. no budget which means that no matter how much the IAF wants, its not going to get gripens or f-16s. Its overall good news for the Pakistanis and Chinese who will have to face the fighters in the air.

Re: India to build F-16 Block 70

Unread postPosted: 04 Sep 2018, 18:27
by basher54321
http://www.tata.com/article/inside/tata ... -f16-wings


Tata, Lockheed Martin to build F-16 wings in India
Landmark ‘Make in India’ move strengthens US-India defence ties

Mumbai: Tata Advanced Systems (TASL) and Lockheed Martin Corp. [NYSE: LMT] announced today an agreement to commence production of F-16 wings in India for export. This strategic initiative positions TASL to become the provider of wings for all future customers and strengthens its role in the F-16 global supply chain.

Production of F-16 wings in India will further strengthen TASL’s capability to address global aerospace requirement of fighter aircrafts and support ‘Make in India.’ The planned F-16 wing production move to India is not contingent on the Government of India selecting the F-16 for the Indian Air Force.

Sukaran Singh, chief executive officer and managing director, TASL, said, “We are delighted with the decision made by Lockheed Martin to select Tata Advanced Systems Limited for the production of F-16 wings in India. This positions TASL as a global provider of F-16 wings in future. TASL and Lockheed Martin, through a long-standing joint-venture, have been manufacturing airframe components of the C-130J aircraft and S-92 Sikorsky helicopter at the Hyderabad facility. This development now again gives us an excellent opportunity to showcase our technological expertise and advance our capability development, as we reinforce our commitment to both the Indian and global aerospace industry. The production of the F-16 wings in India, for global application, is set to place the country at the centre of the world's largest fighter aircraft ecosystem and make it a preferred destination for aerospace manufacturing.”

Re: India to build F-16 Block 70

Unread postPosted: 05 Sep 2018, 04:17
by popcorn
Pretty transparent move by Marilyn Lockheed.

Re: India to build F-16 Block 70

Unread postPosted: 05 Sep 2018, 09:22
by Corsair1963
Especially, with so few F-16 orders left on the books.... :|

Re: India to build F-16 Block 70

Unread postPosted: 05 Sep 2018, 15:58
by vilters
Well, so far no wings have fallen off.
Guess there is room for a "first".