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Re: Thunderbird F-16 down near Colorado Springs

Unread postPosted: 16 Dec 2016, 09:21
by VarkVet
guy@rdaf.dk wrote:Well, then I suggest you reread the part of the report about human factors and consider incidents like the one in the link below:

http://www.bfu-web.de/EN/Publications/I ... cationFile

Sometimes pilots do strange things that does not make sense, and as stated before, I have seen it before on several occasions.

On the cockpit video you can actually see his arm moving the throttle past the idle detent, notice it and put it back forward, and then the camera stops a second later as the generator drops offline while the engine spools down. If not for the viser and mask you would actually be able to see the "Ups" expression painted on his face...


Well it's one of the checks I've always done before I jumped in and started the bloody thing.

You kneel on the ladder, set your switches, take the throttle from off to mil, slam to idle, then trigger tilt back to off.

Get off ladder and do rest of walk around?

Re: Thunderbird F-16 down near Colorado Springs

Unread postPosted: 16 Dec 2016, 09:47
by guy@rdaf.dk
VarkVet wrote:Well it's one of the checks I've always done before I jumped in and started the bloody thing.

You kneel on the ladder, set your switches, take the throttle from off to mil, slam to idle, then trigger tilt back to off.

Get off ladder and do rest of walk around?


If you really did it as described, you probably used the wrong technic. Checklist require you to check the entire range of motion (cutoff to max AB) and not only cutoff to MIL (even tough this is not relevant in this case with this mishap). More importantly, you need to check the functionality of the trigger mechanism, by trying to rotate the throttle outboard and moving it to cutoff without touching the trigger. This is the only way to check that the trigger mechanism is actually working as it should.

Re: Thunderbird F-16 down near Colorado Springs

Unread postPosted: 16 Dec 2016, 10:12
by VarkVet
guy@rdaf.dk wrote:
VarkVet wrote:Well it's one of the checks I've always done before I jumped in and started the bloody thing.

You kneel on the ladder, set your switches, take the throttle from off to mil, slam to idle, then trigger tilt back to off.

Get off ladder and do rest of walk around?


If you really did it as described, you probably used the wrong technic. Checklist require you to check the entire range of motion (cutoff to max AB) and not only cutoff to MIL (even tough this is not relevant in this case with this mishap). More importantly, you need to check the functionality of the trigger mechanism, by trying to rotate the throttle outboard and moving it to cutoff without touching the trigger. This is the only way to check that the trigger mechanism is actually working as it should.


You can't engage afterburner with throttle and spider open for pre-check

Re: Thunderbird F-16 down near Colorado Springs

Unread postPosted: 16 Dec 2016, 10:56
by guy@rdaf.dk
You can't engage afterburner with throttle and spider open for pre-check


You can if you follow the checklist. Besides, is it not possible to close the spider handle with the canopy open, do the throttle movement check and open the spider again? Works for me on every pre engine start :mrgreen:

Now don't tell me that one is butt-hurt if one follows the check-list. Isn't that part of good aviation discipline?

Re: Thunderbird F-16 down near Colorado Springs

Unread postPosted: 26 Dec 2016, 11:22
by saberrider
http://alert5.com/2016/12/16/throttle-t ... ird-crash/ Some problems with throttle due to wear and tear,but at this level of expertise it is hard to believe that's what happened there.

Re: Thunderbird F-16 down near Colorado Springs

Unread postPosted: 05 Jan 2017, 19:22
by meatwod
Inadvertent throttle cutoff has occurred a dozen other F-16 mishaps.

Re: Thunderbird F-16 down near Colorado Springs

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2017, 06:08
by neurotech
meatwod wrote:Inadvertent throttle cutoff has occurred a dozen other F-16 mishaps.

Which ones? I've read a lot of the AIB reports for the USAF F-16s. Was it other F-16 operators?

A few reports mention the Main Fuel Shut-Off Valve causing engine rollback and failure, but did not mention the throttle cutoff being involved.

Re: Thunderbird F-16 down near Colorado Springs

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2017, 09:56
by 35_aoa
guy@rdaf.dk wrote:
You can't engage afterburner with throttle and spider open for pre-check


You can if you follow the checklist. Besides, is it not possible to close the spider handle with the canopy open, do the throttle movement check and open the spider again? Works for me on every pre engine start :mrgreen:

Now don't tell me that one is butt-hurt if one follows the check-list. Isn't that part of good aviation discipline?


I assume "spider" means the "claw" that covers the canopy open/close switch and actuates the canopy seal? If so, yeah, I have never had a problem checking the AB position during preflight with it open……you just have to move carefully so as not to scrape your knuckles in the process. I do it once I'm already in the seat strapped in as part of my cockpit sweep, but same same.

Re: Thunderbird F-16 down near Colorado Springs

Unread postPosted: 10 Jan 2017, 17:17
by meatwod
neurotech wrote:
meatwod wrote:Inadvertent throttle cutoff has occurred a dozen other F-16 mishaps.

Which ones? I've read a lot of the AIB reports for the USAF F-16s. Was it other F-16 operators?

A few reports mention the Main Fuel Shut-Off Valve causing engine rollback and failure, but did not mention the throttle cutoff being involved.


https://www.abqjournal.com/855571/repor ... in-nm.html

Re: Thunderbird F-16 down near Colorado Springs

Unread postPosted: 11 Jan 2017, 19:30
by neurotech
meatwod wrote:
neurotech wrote:
meatwod wrote:Inadvertent throttle cutoff has occurred a dozen other F-16 mishaps.

Which ones? I've read a lot of the AIB reports for the USAF F-16s. Was it other F-16 operators?

A few reports mention the Main Fuel Shut-Off Valve causing engine rollback and failure, but did not mention the throttle cutoff being involved.


https://www.abqjournal.com/855571/repor ... in-nm.html

Maybe 12 other mishaps caused by inadvertent throttle cut-off in almost 40 years is possible. I found one more in the DB.

84-1311

88-0487 (Same as linked article)

I'd also heard from a friend that they experienced a inadvertent throttle cutoff incident, with a returning F-16 pilot up front. No known defect with the throttle controls. There was only minor damage to the jet on landing, and EPU activation.

Re: Thunderbird F-16 down near Colorado Springs

Unread postPosted: 23 Jan 2017, 19:54
by bothomas
Boman wrote:On the subject of new #6 fighter, any jet to be transferred to the unit would have to be modified with the smoke system before any paint jobs are applied, and this would naturally take a little more than 2 weeks to perform.


This is being done now at depot. Definitely not a quick process. Special parts having to be manufactured.

Re: Thunderbird F-16 down near Colorado Springs

Unread postPosted: 24 Jan 2017, 07:36
by Boman
Which tail number is replacing the destroyed viper?

Re: Thunderbird F-16 down near Colorado Springs

Unread postPosted: 15 Feb 2017, 00:06
by bothomas
Boman wrote:Which tail number is replacing the destroyed viper?


93-0553

Re: Thunderbird F-16 down near Colorado Springs

Unread postPosted: 25 Mar 2017, 12:38
by tbarlow
http://www.airforcemag.com/AircraftAcci ... County.pdf

Here is the link to the AIB report, Good reading

Re: Thunderbird F-16 down near Colorado Springs

Unread postPosted: 04 Apr 2017, 13:51
by air-to-air
93-0553 was delivered to Nellis AFB in full Thunderbirds c/s on 10 March 2017