Thunderbird F-16 down near Colorado Springs

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johnwill

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Unread post13 Nov 2016, 21:40

:lmao:
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meatwod

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Unread post18 Nov 2016, 18:14

Gums wrote:Salute!

O.K., Meat.

Couldn't find relevant info on the USAF Safety site, so give us a clue!

Gums asks....


Use the search filter to narrow down the month the MISHAP happened and the base it occurred.
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Gums

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Unread post18 Nov 2016, 20:53

Salute!

Sorry, Meat, but using the official site I have no luck.

http://www.safety.af.mil/

Ya gotta quote something and include the URL, sir. Perhaps you can enlighten us?

My intell is from folks from Buckley and on the ground at Pete Field with radios. They say there were calls about low gas and also from ATC folks about Secret Service requiring the 'birds to hold.

Gums sends...

P.S. As I have implied, you will not see the official USAF accident report until after January 20th 2017 for obvious reasons.
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meatwod

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Unread post30 Nov 2016, 15:31

This is the public safety center site. I am referring the to the AFSAS site which is limited access. Without an account, you won't be able to see SIB reports. As you know, SIB reports are not releasable.
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Gums

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Unread post30 Nov 2016, 20:49

Salute!

Sorry, Meat, but that's a poor excuse.

I have been on USAF accident boards as a member and as an "expert witness" or a troop that saw the accident happen.

We all respect the premature release of "findings". We all respect the intent of USAF to hush down the rumor mill.

The biggie here is that the rumor mill claims that the Secret Service "held" the Birds and #1 finally told them to stuff it and they were gonna land. Ya know, shoot us down if ya can.

I fully unnerstand that trapped fuel could have been a big factor and/or a faulty gauge. So you think you have 1,000 pounds or even 600 and you actually have zero.

Hey, Meat!! Go over to Pprune forum in the military sub-forum and post your info. Sounds to me that you are on the accident board, so I forgive you if you are.

Gums sends...
Gums
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"God in your guts, good men at your back, wings that stay on - and Tally Ho!"
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intercede007

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Unread post14 Dec 2016, 19:08

The June crash of a Thunderbirds fighter jet near Colorado Springs was caused by a throttle issue that prompted an engine cut-off and loss of thrust, the Air Force said in a report released Wednesday, leaving its pilot with no choice but to eject and ditch the aircraft.

Specifically, the Air Force says a “throttle trigger malfunction and inadvertent throttle rotation” led the F-16 to go down just south of the Colorado Springs Airport. The $29 million plane was destroyed.

Source: http://www.denverpost.com/2016/12/14/th ... o-springs/
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Gums

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Unread post15 Dec 2016, 00:21

Salute!

Thanks, Intercede.

Will pursue further, but something sounds fishy.

Gums sends...
Gums
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"God in your guts, good men at your back, wings that stay on - and Tally Ho!"
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Lieven

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Unread post15 Dec 2016, 12:54

According to the report, the pilot inadvertently rotated the throttle during landing, placing it into an engine cut-off position. Normally, this full rotation cannot occur unless a throttle trigger is affirmatively actuated or pressed. However, the throttle trigger was "stuck" in the 'pressed' position.


F-16.net article

FAA audio files of the Thunderbird Crash on June 2, 2016

Cockpit and HUD video of Thunderbird 6 crash on June 2, 2016

f16thr.jpg


Videos that show how the throttle works:


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VarkVet

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Unread post16 Dec 2016, 06:39

Stupidest synopsis I've ever read for an AIB?

You only rotate the throttle counterclockwise with trigger when you shut her off ... if trigger was stuck engaged during duration of flight, why would you rotate throttle leading to off when you just want to reduce power for landing?

It's a freaking two fold operations?

What am I missing?
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dragracingmaniac

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Unread post16 Dec 2016, 07:30

Considering that you have to also rotate the throttle outboard to go to cutoff, sounds/smells like shenanigans are afoot! :devil:
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guy@rdaf.dk

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Unread post16 Dec 2016, 07:41

VarkVet wrote:Stupidest synopsis I've ever read for an AIB?

You only rotate the throttle counterclockwise with trigger when you shut her off ... if trigger was stuck engaged during duration of flight, why would you rotate throttle leading to off when you just want to reduce power for landing?

It's a freaking two fold operations?

What am I missing?


your missing the fact that its a human that operates the throttle. It has been seen numerous times, especially with new students in the family model and sim, that for some reason and not purposely, they sometimes rotate the throttle outboard when fiddling around the idle detent. Some even have their pinky on the cutoff release trigger. Even had one mistake the HOBO switch with the trigger on one occasion. Manipulating the cutoff trigger must be a cognitive decision and not a reflex.

Why an experienced pilot would rotate it outboard I'm not sure, but it could be a simple brain fart, or a wrong habit pattern that has never been discovered during his entire Viper career, but has not bitten him until now, as the cutoff trigger usually works as advertised.
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VarkVet

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Unread post16 Dec 2016, 07:47

Crew chief failed on 50 hour throttle inspection

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MYLPoTNnKAk
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guy@rdaf.dk

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Unread post16 Dec 2016, 08:17

VarkVet wrote:Crew chief failed on 50 hour throttle inspection


Exactly :-) and the crew chief did so by not following the inspection routine that was never in the Tech Order. Crew chief will need to learn to read between the lines of the Tech Order if he/she wants to succeed onwards.

Pilots never make mistakes - ever...
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VarkVet

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Unread post16 Dec 2016, 08:30

guy@rdaf.dk wrote:
VarkVet wrote:Stupidest synopsis I've ever read for an AIB?

You only rotate the throttle counterclockwise with trigger when you shut her off ... if trigger was stuck engaged during duration of flight, why would you rotate throttle leading to off when you just want to reduce power for landing?

It's a freaking two fold operations?

What am I missing?


your missing the fact that its a human that operates the throttle. It has been seen numerous times, especially with new students in the family model and sim, that for some reason and not purposely, they sometimes rotate the throttle outboard when fiddling around the idle detent. Some even have their pinky on the cutoff release trigger. Even had one mistake the HOBO switch with the trigger on one occasion. Manipulating the cutoff trigger must be a cognitive decision and not a reflex.

Why an experienced pilot would rotate it outboard I'm not sure, but it could be a simple brain fart, or a wrong habit pattern that has never been discovered during his entire Viper career, but has not bitten him until now, as the cutoff trigger usually works as advertised.


That's bullshit mate ... you only actuate the motors cutoff mechanism when you want to shut her off... that can be fingerlifts, trigger-rotate-off, or detent-lift -then- off.

On some jets you can push a fire button or pull a handle to shut her off as well.
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guy@rdaf.dk

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Unread post16 Dec 2016, 08:41

Well, then I suggest you reread the part of the report about human factors and consider incidents like the one in the link below:

http://www.bfu-web.de/EN/Publications/I ... cationFile

Sometimes pilots do strange things that does not make sense, and as stated before, I have seen it before on several occasions.

On the cockpit video you can actually see his arm moving the throttle past the idle detent, notice it and put it back forward, and then the camera stops a second later as the generator drops offline while the engine spools down. If not for the viser and mask you would actually be able to see the "Ups" expression painted on his face...
Greetings to you all at the NSA and everybody else who is reading this on ECHELON.
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