Taiwan to upgrade 145 F16 A/B

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weasel1962

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Unread post12 Mar 2019, 01:31

Nice article by Mike as usual.

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/03 ... ual-twist/

Taiwan has requested a fleet of new fighters from the United States, but it didn’t specify a type, leaving it up to the U.S. to recommend an option, according to defense officials.


Could just as easily be F-15X.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post12 Mar 2019, 05:17

weasel1962 wrote:Nice article by Mike as usual.

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/03 ... ual-twist/

Taiwan has requested a fleet of new fighters from the United States, but it didn’t specify a type, leaving it up to the U.S. to recommend an option, according to defense officials.


Could just as easily be F-15X.




I was thinking the same thing. Offer the F-15X to Taiwan. While, giving the USAF more F-35A's.
(WIN-WIN) 8)
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magnum4469

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Unread post12 Mar 2019, 12:38

Corsair1963 wrote:
weasel1962 wrote:Nice article by Mike as usual.

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/03 ... ual-twist/

Taiwan has requested a fleet of new fighters from the United States, but it didn’t specify a type, leaving it up to the U.S. to recommend an option, according to defense officials.


Could just as easily be F-15X.




I was thinking the same thing. Offer the F-15X to Taiwan. While, giving the USAF more F-35A's.
(WIN-WIN) 8)


It would be Win-Win for the Taiwanese and Lose-Lose for the USA. Taiwan would get a great fighter that can carry 20+AAMs while the US would be stuck with the turkey that can only carry 4, unless it goes to beast mode, then only 6... https://www.raytheon.com/news/feature/arming_the_f-35 "The F-35 can carry up to two AIM-9X missiles on its wings and four AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles internally."
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madrat

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Unread post12 Mar 2019, 12:55

That turkey gobbled up the competition in every exercise it's been involved.

As far as F-15 goes, it has been getting it's own radar signature reduction enhancement since F-15E first went into production. The F-16 had to catch up from behind with Have Glass iterations. F-15X is getting F-15E caught back up after it fell behind. F-15X leverages on standoff missiles for counter air, while relying on a combination of SPJ and support assets for survival. F-35 is standalone technology, not requiring all the support assets. The weakest link on both is the footprint on the ground. F-35 wins it head to head, but unfortunately even RAND is declaring it the Achilles heel.

That leads me to an OT conclusion. Six generation fighters will need to be tougher to catch on the ground.
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weasel1962

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Unread post13 Mar 2019, 01:51

If F-35B, then may not see footprint on the ground.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post13 Mar 2019, 05:15

magnum4469 wrote:


I was thinking the same thing. Offer the F-15X to Taiwan. While, giving the USAF more F-35A's.
(WIN-WIN) 8)


It would be Win-Win for the Taiwanese and Lose-Lose for the USA. Taiwan would get a great fighter that can carry 20+AAMs while the US would be stuck with the turkey that can only carry 4, unless it goes to beast mode, then only 6... https://www.raytheon.com/news/feature/arming_the_f-35 "The F-35 can carry up to two AIM-9X missiles on its wings and four AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles internally."[/quote]


I think your on the wrong forum. As you have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe you should consider one like AFM???
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weasel1962

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Unread post16 Mar 2019, 13:41

It's inadequate but better than nothing. Trump approves 66 f-16v for Taiwan.

https://www.realcleardefense.com/2019/0 ... 07081.html
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gc

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Unread post20 Mar 2019, 12:21

https://defence-blog.com/army/taiwan-se ... om-us.html

Not directly related but seems like Taiwan is seizing the opportunity now to submit more weapons request.
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wrightwing

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Unread post20 Mar 2019, 19:52

magnum4469 wrote:




It would be Win-Win for the Taiwanese and Lose-Lose for the USA. Taiwan would get a great fighter that can carry 20+AAMs while the US would be stuck with the turkey that can only carry 4, unless it goes to beast mode, then only 6... https://www.raytheon.com/news/feature/arming_the_f-35 "The F-35 can carry up to two AIM-9X missiles on its wings and four AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles internally."

You might want to recheck your numbers. In "Beast Mode" the F-35 can carry 14 AIM-120 (and 16 once the internal carry goes to 6) + 2 AIM-9X. Of course once SACM comes on line, internal carriage goes to 12 AAMs. In any event, there's no scenario where the F-15 is going to be the superior platform. There's never been a scenario in the history of aerial combat, where there were enough targets to be able to use 22 AAMs.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post21 Mar 2019, 02:47

wrightwing wrote:
magnum4469 wrote:




It would be Win-Win for the Taiwanese and Lose-Lose for the USA. Taiwan would get a great fighter that can carry 20+AAMs while the US would be stuck with the turkey that can only carry 4, unless it goes to beast mode, then only 6... https://www.raytheon.com/news/feature/arming_the_f-35 "The F-35 can carry up to two AIM-9X missiles on its wings and four AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles internally."

You might want to recheck your numbers. In "Beast Mode" the F-35 can carry 14 AIM-120 (and 16 once the internal carry goes to 6) + 2 AIM-9X. Of course once SACM comes on line, internal carriage goes to 12 AAMs. In any event, there's no scenario where the F-15 is going to be the superior platform. There's never been a scenario in the history of aerial combat, where there were enough targets to be able to use 22 AAMs.


Honestly, in the real world it's rare to carry more than eight......
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Unread post21 Mar 2019, 15:04

This is a great point and one that needs some fleshing out..

A big selling point by Boeing is that the F-15EX can carry up to 22 AAM's. But really, how practical is that? Even assuming no drop tanks and instead CFT's, the drag index of those AAM's has to be enormous, bringing down it's range. Oops, there goes the F-15EX "persistence" argument.

So now we have a fighter with a huge radar signature, mediocre range and reduced speed as Taiwan's premiere fighter. They'll be up against significantly upgraded J-16's and SU-35's, and that doesn't include the J-20. If I'm not mistaken the J-15 and SU-35 have reduced signatures of their own, and the J-20 as we know is LO, if not VLO.

It's not going to be cheap, either. Taiwan will have to convert to a whole new airframe and associated airfield, hangar etc changes. The cost per flight hour will be a lot more than her F-16's too.

I suppose if they get enough airborne they can lumber along and using their big radars see the armada arrayed against them, firing as many AMRAAM's as possible at the massive Chinese formations. Then close the distance and try to clean up with 9x shots. The problem is that the survivors probably won't have an airfield to egress to.

The F-16V buy will suffer from the same issues, and probably be a lot less effective to boot. The AESA it has is no slouch, but doesn't really compare to the F-15X's monster AESA, coupled with the fastest mission computer yet fielded. I dunno. Politics won't allow Taiwan to get F-35's, and that's unfortunate. Because it's really the only aircraft that could give them a fighting chance vs. a Chinese onslaught...
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Unread post21 Mar 2019, 16:29

So now we have a fighter with a huge radar signature


The F-16 has an order of magnitude lower frontal RCS than F-15, around 1 sq m which more or less compensates for its smaller AESA when facing other fighters. As 4th gen fighters go it is a pretty well rounded design especially the F-16V.
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