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In 2006, we had a VIP visit Holloman AFB, a 4 star if memory serves. When given a tour of the UAE Block 60 aircraft, he made the commented that he wondered why we (the USAF) didn't invest in Block 60 F-16s, he did say that the F-35 is an excellent fighter aircraft, but with the current costs of the Raptor, maybe it would have been smarter to just buy newer F-16s to renew the current inventory. I have thought about this myself, and appreciate the work that the F-35 is giving me, and I understand about maintianing the R&D momentum, but I still wonder if we shouldn't have purchased some Block 60 aircraft to sort of bridge the gap.

http://www.holloman.af.mil/photos/
Some cool photos of F-117A #843

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Got to pay for the F-22 and F-35 somehow. Other things, like new F-16s, older F-16s, personnel, ANG, etc, have to be sacrificed.

Jake

Beeman wrote:

In 2006, we had a VIP visit Holloman AFB, a 4 star if memory serves. When given a tour of the UAE Block 60 aircraft, he made the commented that he wondered why we (the USAF) didn't invest in Block 60 F-16s, he did say that the F-35 is an excellent fighter aircraft, but with the current costs of the Raptor, maybe it would have been smarter to just buy newer F-16s to renew the current inventory. I have thought about this myself, and appreciate the work that the F-35 is giving me, and I understand about maintianing the R&D momentum, but I still wonder if we shouldn't have purchased some Block 60 aircraft to sort of bridge the gap.

http://www.holloman.af.mil/photos/
Some cool photos of F-117A #843

Ehmm... Congress mate...

Oh. I understand about Congress, and all of the states interests, look at the flap over the tanker contract, just doesn't always seem to add up.

Dave

In a word: politics.

I has to do with the Block 60 radar package from Northrop Grumman, they offered the Block 60 to the USAF but in order to keep the (per A/C) price down the USAF would have to pay NGC a huge "R&D" fee for the Block 60...

When they offered the A/C to the UAE, the UAE basically said, "OK, who do we make the check out to..."

Maybe now that the R&D fees have been paid for by the UAE the AF will come in and buy a few, but I doubt it.... It's tough to get funding for new systems when you say the old systems work well.... even if they do....

Smitty

I'll try to Put it simple mate, "some" people can make more $$$ developing a new program (jet, tanker, AFV u name it) than making more of what we already have... sort of...not going into details... I have spoken too much already. Whistle

Besides UAE vipers specifications included needs for that particular Air force and enviroment. They could afford the developing $$$ of a program like that.

Cheers.

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2862

Because they needed cash for moronic things like:

-Yet another stupid uniform change.

-MV-22s

-Thinking about C-27s

And some other dumb things.

But thats OK, We can all think about this in less than 10 years when Block 25/30/32s are gone, 40/42s are ragged and 50/52s are run hard to make up for the shortfalls when JSF shows up late or real late.

Well a lot of my feelings are due to sentiment, I still think the F-16 is one hell of an airframe, it has done just about everything that the Air Force has asked of it. I spent over 16 years of my career on the various blocks, so of course I am biased. I know that the coming of the F-35 signifies the changing of the guard, and we have to continue to move forward, make room for the new (hey that is why I retired), doesn't mean that I have to like it. Thanks for the replies.

Dave

Beeman wrote:

In 2006, we had a VIP visit Holloman AFB, a 4 star if memory serves. When given a tour of the UAE Block 60 aircraft, he made the commented that he wondered why we (the USAF) didn't invest in Block 60 F-16s, he did say that the F-35 is an excellent fighter aircraft, but with the current costs of the Raptor, maybe it would have been smarter to just buy newer F-16s to renew the current inventory. I have thought about this myself, and appreciate the work that the F-35 is giving me, and I understand about maintianing the R&D momentum, but I still wonder if we shouldn't have purchased some Block 60 aircraft to sort of bridge the gap.

The main reasoning is that the USAF needs to funnel more resources and money to the JSF program. Also, why should the AF settle for a Block 60, when the F-35 replacement will be significantly more capable? The Air Force is done buying F-16s, as it’s time to move on.

Also, the F-35 is not going to cost "near as much" as the F-22 for the main fact is that they are going to build more of them, like more than 10 to 1 compared to the Raptor. Now if congress pulls another stupid stunt like they did when they severely cut the F-22 production done to just over a hundred airframes, they yes, the cost per copy with be a lot higher. With all the other FMS involved, I just don’t see that happening, especially since it's going to be the F-16's replacement.

Mike V

Well after reading about all of the cost overruns and delays, and the fact that the F-35 program is going to cost over a trillion dollars, depending on the elections this year, I am not betting on anything.

Dave

Congress, sure...but... Military Industrial complex influenced as well (and ultimately USAF). It could be assessed that GD/LM played down the F-16XL et al, since they didn't want to compete against their own played up JSF entry - which was in the mid-90s a MIC wet dream.

So it really boils down to the buyer in such a rich 'candy shop' to shop prudently despite every dreamed of treat dangling before them. Of course, with perceived budget constraints, USAF and services will point blame to DoD and congress Smile

So the cycle goes...

Is it true though that NASA and LM are dusting off the old F-16XL for updated R&D? I think I read a blurb on Wiki or somewhere.. interesting if it's the case.

I'm no engineer but my dream bird would be: a Tailless, XL variant, with CCV fins perhaps, 2-D LON vectoring, SABR radar(?), open-architecture with latest off-the shelf avionics, GE-132, air-launched version of SM-6..

Now that would not be your Father's Falcon.

It would be a draggy falcon, a mere bomb truck. For that amount of wing area, it would bleed off all speed the time it was forced to turn fast.

The Ultimate wet dream would be the Japanese F-2 bought up to be compatible with all smart weapons and BVR missiles Japan has no access to.

Pilotasso wrote:

It would be a draggy falcon, a mere bomb truck. For that amount of wing area, it would bleed off all speed the time it was forced to turn fast.

The Ultimate wet dream would be the Japanese F-2 bought up to be compatible with all smart weapons and BVR missiles Japan has no access to.

Uh...No...The F-2 is still still an old design based on the F-16 and has little to no advantage over the F-16 in RCS.
Guys, I love the F-16. It is a fantastic airplane and can still compete with almost everything that is brand new out there (operative word is compete), but it is a 30 year old design. When it was designed we didn't have desk top computer's in the home, cable television, or microwave ovens. It's time for a newer design that can exceed current platforms. I don't want to compete with anyone, I want to dominate them.
One of the most important things for a bomb truck now a days would be to defeat the SA-10's and 20's, AA-12's and PL-12's and associated fighter radars by not being seen until after the payload was on the way.
The Block 60 is a step forward in Avionics, Engine, and Radar but it has sacrificed agility to get there and the aiframe is not anymore stealthy. Advanced weapons have caught up to the F-16's design. A new design is required. I think everyone will see that the F-35 will (with growing pains, like every airframe has had) do the job the Air Force wants and do it very well. The Block 60 is for a country that cannot afford the JSF or its capabilities.

+1^ But its just soo hard to admit when your old news. Although the 16 is nowhere near retirement I can see myself in ten years talking just like the old F-4s guys do/did when I came in. To them its still the greatest acft to take to the sky.

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Why didn't the USAF buy Block 60s