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Document title: AIB release accident report on F-16 crash - F-16.net - The Ultimate F-16 Reference
Original URL: http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-9842-start-30-sid-c1c269f2bd01356eea6a41d82b9db852.html
Printed on: 12 October 2008

Forum: F-16 News

AIB release accident report on F-16 crash



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MechFromHell
PostPosted: Feb 04, 2008 - 09:22 AM Reply with quote Back to top
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The report talks about the reenlistment ceremony picture on Pg. 21 para 4 and on pg. 3 para "c. preflight"
The language isn't that strong... Evil or Very Mad

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VarkVet
PostPosted: Feb 04, 2008 - 09:02 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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Remedial Training (good Stuff and a test)

http://www.airmichelin.com/pdfs/Certifi ... el%201.pdf

http://www.airmichelin.com/pdfs/Certifi ... el%202.pdf

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Koa121
PostPosted: Mar 24, 2008 - 11:31 AM Reply with quote Back to top
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Well, our MXG/CC just had a commander's call last week, and laid out the AIB details. As most Crew Chiefs on this board know this whole thing is just a way to blame someone for the crash. According to the report, and sworn testimony, the ONLY deviation from tech data on the tire change was that the tire pressure was not checked before letting down the tire. The 7 level on the task wanted to get the jet off of the jack in case they were mortared and needed to tow it. Soon after the jet came off jacks, the A1C returned with the gauge and popped the tires. Nose was signed off at 310psi(GTG). Later on in the day the expediter told the swingshift A1C to pop the tires again. He did not, because according to the TO, tires are good for 8hrs. It had only been about 5-6 hrs since the first check. Tires-still good. So that's it. And for the picture, the nose tire is clearly visible, I couldn't see anything wrong with it. Talk to anyone that has been to Balad and they will tell you about how bad tires get chewed up there. There had to have been about 20 people that stayed to talk to the MXG/CC to tell him that we all thought it was a crock. Too bad for those involved who got burned. For skipping 1 step that had NOTHING to do with an aircraft crashing.
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MechFromHell
PostPosted: Mar 24, 2008 - 01:27 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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Koa121 wrote:
Later on in the day the expediter told the swingshift A1C to pop the tires again. He did not, because according to the TO, tires are good for 8hrs. It had only been about 5-6 hrs since the first check. Tires-still good.


The report also says that this crewchief updated (forged) the original 781 A write-up for the pressure check, indicating that he had checked the tire on his shift like the expediter asked. While it wasn't a T.O. required task to check the tires again...he sure felt it important enough to forge 781 entries.

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fifel144
PostPosted: Mar 24, 2008 - 02:18 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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So the MP did not check the engine gauges? Just assumed it was an engine problem?
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bonjour82
PostPosted: Jul 22, 2008 - 02:41 AM Reply with quote Back to top
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akruse21 wrote:
Not sure of your background but have you ever "touched" a fighter tire? Short of applying a press on gauge on that sucker, or its incredibly low, a visual inspection won't tell you much.


I definately agree. A visual check of the nose landing gear tire isn't feasible unless the tire itself is close to being completely flat. The main gear tires have nearly the entire aircraft weight on them and a tire pressure difference of 25-50 psig is visually noticeable between the left and right. The nose tire is pretty damn firm and a pressure difference of more than 50 psig isn't noticeable if you wanted to visually check the tire. I don't believe the low pressure hype. This aircraft took off on a separate runway that is used for heavy aircraft and helos. Rocks and aircraft debris can easily be scattered around the runway from the helos. We can speculate forever as to what really caused the crash; but when you have somebody who admits to not following tech data, regardless of what step they altered or missed, their a$$ is in the sling and the AIB will go all the way with that information.
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vinnie
PostPosted: Jul 22, 2008 - 10:46 AM Reply with quote Back to top
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Sometimes tires fail on their own, I just put 1200 $ worth of Michilens on a Cadillac STS, within 50 miles he has 2000 $ of damage from a tire coming apart on the interstate, Wish I had pics, it beat the car up.
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ViperKeeper
PostPosted: Jul 22, 2008 - 03:34 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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This is just another example of how a US crew chief can get screwed. Now go up to these poor guys and ask them if they should have signed up for services insted of going in as a crew chief. The USAF is going to hell in a hand basket.. the way I see it you would have to be an idiot to reenlist and collect the same pay as some one with the same rank that washes dishes. I believe they have it right here in Norway.. as alot of the crew chiefs are captains and most of the pilots Lt's... Sad thing is the USAF will never change as it is run by pilots. The quality of ground crew will slowly go to crap as the smarter folks laugh and walk when they tell you what you will be held reponsible for and how low you fall on the pole.

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saber8723
PostPosted: Jul 22, 2008 - 04:38 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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You think a high OPS tempo would have anything to do with this??
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tokenblkguy1785
PostPosted: Jul 22, 2008 - 07:53 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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high ops tempo and steadily decreasing manning has a little something to do with this
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Purplehaze
PostPosted: Jul 22, 2008 - 08:59 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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ViperKeeper wrote:
This is just another example of how a US crew chief can get screwed. Now go up to these poor guys and ask them if they should have signed up for services insted of going in as a crew chief. The USAF is going to hell in a hand basket.. the way I see it you would have to be an idiot to reenlist and collect the same pay as some one with the same rank that washes dishes. I believe they have it right here in Norway.. as alot of the crew chiefs are captains and most of the pilots Lt's... Sad thing is the USAF will never change as it is run by pilots. The quality of ground crew will slowly go to crap as the smarter folks laugh and walk when they tell you what you will be held reponsible for and how low you fall on the pole.


Hey Viper, you still have a sour taste from your USAF time. The Norway thing has been that way since at least 1981. I worked TA at Bitburg then and every week they and at least 2 jets here to do DACT against the eagles. They always had one 2 seater and he was a old Capt. He was the crew chief, spec's guy and everything else, but he couldn't retire until he was very grey and old. Did he like his job? Yes, but he worked very hard for what he has.

Too many out there now don't want to work for what they have, and other's bitch they are not paid enough. You must work hard to progress.
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ViperKeeper
PostPosted: Jul 22, 2008 - 09:15 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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Purplehaze wrote:
ViperKeeper wrote:
This is just another example of how a US crew chief can get screwed. Now go up to these poor guys and ask them if they should have signed up for services insted of going in as a crew chief. The USAF is going to hell in a hand basket.. the way I see it you would have to be an idiot to reenlist and collect the same pay as some one with the same rank that washes dishes. I believe they have it right here in Norway.. as alot of the crew chiefs are captains and most of the pilots Lt's... Sad thing is the USAF will never change as it is run by pilots. The quality of ground crew will slowly go to crap as the smarter folks laugh and walk when they tell you what you will be held reponsible for and how low you fall on the pole.


Hey Viper, you still have a sour taste from your USAF time. The Norway thing has been that way since at least 1981. I worked TA at Bitburg then and every week they and at least 2 jets here to do DACT against the eagles. They always had one 2 seater and he was a old Capt. He was the crew chief, spec's guy and everything else, but he couldn't retire until he was very grey and old. Did he like his job? Yes, but he worked very hard for what he has.

Too many out there now don't want to work for what they have, and other's bitch they are not paid enough. You must work hard to progress.


Nobody here is complaining.. And as for having a sour taste.. well I simpley could not stand being surrounded by morons 24/7 so when I hit my six I rolled out the door.

Having a Lt.Col tell me I should look at the chief as a mentor about gave me a heart attack... I was ready to cry. Anyways some are cut out for being enlisted folk in the military others are just smart. Wink

How bout this .. you come to work for me.

You will do all my work
You will get paid much less
I will make you responsible for everything
I will punish you as I see fit
I will tell you where your going whenever I want
You will call me Sir, always!
I can change these rules as I see fit

Now I will go to production meetings and take 1 hour lunches with my wife. Afterwards I will send emails all day and leave early to pick up my kids from school..

Oh I will need you to work 12's because I cut some folks due to manning levels.. suck it up.

You want the job? ... oh and I can screw your paycheck up over and over..and when you do bounce a check I will fine you for it.

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