Forum: F-16 Procedures

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Wonder what the 15 Homo's are doing now that most of the fleet is grounded.

Trying to figure out why we bought the maintenance nightmare! Bang Head

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Keep in mind, every aircraft has their issues, there is no perfection in maintenance...none, just hard work and maybe a bit of respect for each other that do it or make it happen.

Hell, I cant even find a car that is maintenance free no less a multi role fighter with all of its systems....

[quote="vinnie"]Wonder what the 15 HomoFirst off Vinnie I am not a Homo . But to answer your question we are still working on the damn things. There is always a lot of Sheet metal work to be done. Also doing a bunch of TCTO.s that are out there.

Later

Chris you worked both the 16 and 15 so that makes Bi, what you guys need is a guy like Chief Lewis to make sure those 15's are clean. HAHAHA!

I'm sure they are at least caught up on all their scheduled maint and DDs. Probably lots of other mandatory fun like cleaning Hangers/HASes and jets. Maybe some CTO's as well. Can't say I've ever heard of 16s being grounded across the AF like this. I think the largest fleet grounding I've heard of was at Luke when they had to pull all there motors for whatever reason it was.

I don't know Vinnie, Chris worked 16 a lot longer than 15's so maybe he is just curious HAHA.

F-15 v. F-16 Maintenance: At Incirlik back during ONW, we had a rainbow outfit of 12 Vipers from three different units. There was also an F-15 rainbow outfit with six jets. EVERY SINGLE NIGHT for the month or six weeks we were there, we went home before the Eagle guys did. I got to really feeling sorry for those poor folks trying to keep those raggedy-a$$ A models of theirs FMC.

So, for my money, the F-16 requires by far less maintenance than the F-15. And, as usual, Avionics issues are the difference. It's that way with every MDS out there.

It went back and forth during a deployment for us to Al Udeid. The E models were broke dick so we picked up their lines. And when we were broke A-10s picked up our lines while the 15 guys were workin 8s and wrestlin in the kiddie pool.

Hell, I remember when I was in Phase the 15 docks would always roll jets late, even when us and the other 15 dock would go help. We never had to call them for anything more than wing/tail walkers. You can only fit so many folks on a 16 anyway. And in two and a half years I can probably count on one hand the times we rolled jets late.

I now work with a lot of 15 folks and always have to hear the ribbing about being a 16 guy. They usually stop laughing when I remind them the 16 units are always leaving work before them and not to mention the AGE yard around each eagle. Well I guess you can say the eagle guys are home first currently. Razz

From a purely Life Support perspective the 15 is an easier jet.
In the 16 the seat has to be in the full up position to R2 the survival kit and in the full down to R2 the chute. Typically LS schedules kit changes to coincide with chute changes to reduce the number of trips to the jet. So kit and chute changes on the 16 almost always require external power. Plus the 30 degree recline angle of the seat makes chute installs somewhat tougher.

On the 15 you can stand on the seat and no power is required. The 13 degree seat angle is very easy to deal with. The only bad thing on the 15 is manually raising a dead canopy.

To answer the original question: The Viper is a newer, more advanced airplane. Reducing it's Mx footprint was a goal in it's development. As far as personnel? Fighter squadrons are pretty much the same...some good, some not so good. The perception of who's better at the moment usually boils down to leadership. At least that's been my experience

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All I can tell you is that I work on the F-22 with a #$(% ton of 15 guys (theres only two F-16 guys including myself the other is my DCC thank God) in the whole unit and we get to hear quite a bit of gripe from them when they talk to each other. From what I heard there are some ups and downs to both. On the 15 you have more specialized folk (not specs) working on the acft for you while 16s we pretty much did most of the stuff our selfs i.e. no hydraulic troops, no AR troops, and no Crash Recovery troops. Engines are better at being pulled and stuffed. F-15 is easier to trouble shoot because of fewer electrics. F-16s are easier to depanel. They say the 22 is small to the 15. Man they have no idea what small is. In the 22 I can stand in the nose wheel (I'm 5'10'') while the 16 I still had to kneel down. They said the AMAD (our ADG)on the 22 is bigger than the one on the 15. When me and the other 16 guy heard them talk about it we kinda just looked at each other and knew what the other one was thinking: they have no &$(#ing clue how $@(^ing small that thing is compared to an ADG. To be honest the 22 is closer to the 16 then it is the 15 and for that Im thankful. Course sometimes I wish I could go to the 16 again because the stupid jet doesn't break. And when it does break its usually specs. And when specs "repair" it they just reboot it and badda bing badda boom jet is "repaired". It can be frustrating at times because there is not much for us to do except small stuff. Hell let me tell you guys something. R2 a flight control actuator takes about 45 minutes total and thats including depanel, remove, install, ops check, put panel back on, clean up and sign off. Its beautiful yet frustrating. Kinda like being married I imagine

AFN Sucks, what are you talking about? F-15 Easier because of fewer electronics??? HELLO! Try much older airplanes/airframes= much more wiring problems from chafing and whatnot? And, now we are wondering why the frame on the A-D models is cracking? These models are between 79-84 models (most of them). They quit making the C/D model in 86! The C/D's had crazy mad hours on them prior to Allied Force and OEF and OIF. Dod knew that they were not really meant to last more than 30 years! We had the base pedastel F-16 that was a newer model than all of our C/D Models in the F-15 Squadron!

Also, u talk about the AMAD being smaller than the ADG?? I can't remember in comparison, but, it is not THAT much of a difference if at all (don't quote me), plus, the F-15 has "2" AMAD's- one for each motor (engine) while the F-16 has just the one ADG. Also, the ADG is mated to the CSD (Main Generator) which is almost the exact same Generator used on the F-15's (termed IDG- Integrated Drive Generator). And, of course there are 2 IDG's- one for each engine.

I worked both F-15's and F-16's. I was a Specialist by trade, but, know my way around both acft more than a little bit. Was trained on many APG tasks. And, I have to say that when I was working them that the mechanics in the F-15 world would've done circles around the F-16 crew chiefs.(Mainly because all of the work in the F-15 C/D model world was that- work, Not Recreational MX) No disrespect intended- it is just at the time F-15 crew chiefs were used to working more- besides doing basic stuff and BPO's. Most of the old F-15 Crew Chiefs were previously F-4 Guys or whatever else! As far as having hydraulics troops, I don't know what the heLL u are talking about? There are only "Backshop" hydraulics. Way back in the day Hydraulics were assigned to Specialist Flight, but, that might've been on a bunch of different aircraft. And, you could always tell in the F-15 world which Crew Chiefs were "prior hydraulics troops", cuz they were damn good and fast. In the years working F-16's I never saw nearly as much heavy MX performed on F-16's as on F-15's- especially in the crew chief area. Rudder or stab actuators were changed OFTEN on F-15's. ISA's on F-16's- not even close!! Course, that is what happens when you have a jet where all Block 50's are newer than 1990- and all Block 40's are at the oldest late 80's!

In the end, both jets have their positives and negatives- along with the people that work them. I am sure that a lot has changed since I was in- and not for the better- due to cutbacks and an even higher Ops tempo with 2 on going conflicts as well as the guarding of the U.S. borders (higher airframe hours!!!)- and now without over 400 of these jets to help out?!

What bends the F-15 maintenance perception too, is that since the "peace dividend" started after the cold war everyone was getting shorted spare parts. Some of the F-15 uptimes in pre-OIF no-fly-zone days for F-15s weren't pretty. One comment from a pilot then was: We have a budget surplus in the government but my plane doesn't work when I go out to fly it for lack of parts and I'm supposed to think this mission is important?

oh and good thing Chuck Norris was brought up. Chuck Norris was going to do a tough action movie about being a USAF crew chief and he hung around Meathook for a while to get the right amount of macho for the part. Laughing

Well here is my experience. I worked 16's for 20 years - then disaster struck and I was sent to SJ. I was the flight chief of 68 crew chiefs for 26 jets (when was the last time a 16 unit had 68 cc's?). We had 89 and 90 year model strike eagles - big a$$ P.O.S. using 60's F-4 technology! My first TDY was to Vegas for RF. Well, I worked 15 straight 12 hour days just to make 8 turn 6 with 12 air frames and we made that with 0 spares some days. Never in my F16 career have I been to Vegas and worked that many 12 hour shifts - we might as well have been in Doha. 35 crew chiefs that only saw the strip lights from the LOLA. We had to Cann 4 parts from the 57th just to get home. Last jet FMC 1 hour prior to departure - nothing like fixing jets right up to the point of getting on the KC-10. and..... 3 Ground aborted and had to stay behind!

I have seen so many days where we had 12 front lines - 3 would GAB - go to the spares and GAB 2 of them. The flight line here at SJ has the biggest oil/hydro slicks and stains you'll ever see. Doing ER's, you feel like "if it ain't leaking, it must be empty". Washing jets is the one thing we did little of.

F-15 sucks - you'll never convice me otherwise - -

oh yea, I'm retired now, so let me add this too Shady J sucks a$$ - avoid if at all possible.

elp..what are you talking about? Devil

Forum: F-16 Procedures

F-16 vs. F-15 maintenance