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dwightlooi
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 Posted: Jun 23, 2008 - 03:32 AM
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datafuser wrote:
dwightlooi wrote:
The F-35 Program Office said that:-
(1) The F-35 will enter service with the ability to carry 4 AAMs internally plus up to 10 additional missiles externally.
Can we see the original source of the F-35 Program Office's above statement please?
I'd like to see something other than the page 42 of http://www.jsf.mil/downloads/documents/ ... t%2006.pdf
I still haven't seen any hard evidence that AMRAAM ejectors for stations 4 and 8 are funded right now.
Answered earlier in this thread... on page 2. http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopi ... rt-15.html
It was a direct reply to an inquiry by the JSF program office. You can write them too... it'll probably take them a while to respond, but they might. |
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 Posted: Oct 07, 2008 - 12:48 AM
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F15F16F22F35
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Posted: Jun 23, 2008 - 05:41 PM
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Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 20, 2008
Posts: 42
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| Hey what did you say to the f-35 program office and were did you send the email to? |
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F15F16F22F35
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Posted: Jun 23, 2008 - 05:53 PM
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Obamanite wrote:
F15F16F22F35 wrote:
dwightlooi wrote:
checksixx wrote:
F15F16F22F35 wrote:
6 internal AMRAAMs on the F-35? COOL!!!  Are they working on this right now or is this after SDD?
No plans for 6 internal AIM-120's right now. No one here will believe it. The thread has spiraled out of control.
The F-35 Program Office said that:-
(1) The F-35 will enter service with the ability to carry 4 AAMs internally plus up to 10 additional missiles externally.
(2) The F-35 weapon bays have room for additional air-to-air missiles and studies have been conducted on advancing launcher technology to capitalize on the additional space to carry more than 4 AAMs.
(3) Currently, there are no US plans, schedules or funding for the implementation of multi-AAM launchers for the internal stations.
Anything else you may or may not have heard is bullshit.
In short, 6 AAMs is physically possible but is not being pursed by the USA right now because it is low on the priority list. Unless Israel, Australia, the UK or some other F-35 partners who may be using the F-35 as their primary high superiority fighter chooses to develop a twin ejector for the F-35 internal bays using a few million of their own currency, such a device will not be available until the high priority tasks have been retired.
The priority is to stay on the revised schedule and get the F-35 into low-rate-initial-production by 2009, full rate production (132+ aircrafts per year) and IOC by 2012. The aircraft has to enter service with the baseline capability to prosecute the vast majority of anticipated A2A and precision strike missions with the core subset of possible loadouts. Additional capabilities and loadout options can come later.
http://www.jsf.mil/downloads/documents/ ... 202007.pdf
The other thing to consider that the AIM-120C/D may no longer be the contemporary AAM of the US armed services in 2016. There should be a new missile or one actively being developed. So, a question one has to ask is whether it is a wise thing to bend over backwards to squeeze out a dual ejector at a time when schedules and funding can least afford it only to get it in service in time for it to be retired.
14 AAMs thats much more than any other fighter. Any so why do people say the F-35 is not a good air superiority fighter if it can carry 14 AAMs?
I can see why they don't need 6 internal AAMs if it can already carry 14. If some partner nations do go for the 6 internal AAM than no doubt the U.S. will go for it too but as of right now no one is. 14 is more than enough.
Two things: first, 14 AAMs is theoretical and I doubt that would ever be an operational load, as I can't imagine a mission that would require a single airplane to carry more than a dozen AAMs. Second, such a load would ruin the F-35's VLO characteristics and negate its entire raison d'etre. Certainly, the ability for it to carry 6 internal AAMs will come in very handy not just for foreign air forces but for the USAF as well if it can only get approximately 180 Raptors as currently budgeted. Until the USAF's battle for more Raptors is either decisively won or lost, do not expect the F-35 to be cleared to carry more than 4 internal AAMs, as the USAF does not want to do or say anything that may make it apparent that the F-35's AA capability is not that far behind that of the F-22's.
The USAF really needs to drop the getting more than 183 F-22 bullshit. Their fighting a losing battle and the pentagon has maid it very clear that the Air Force is not getting more F-22s, and with the recent leadership change in the USAF and that both McCain and Obama don't seam to favor the F-22 very much the air force has already lost! They should fund the 6 internal AAMs for the F-35 ASAP!
Also I rather have the Air Force get only 183 F-22s and 1763 F-35s than 400 F-22s and only 900 F-35s. 1900 fighters vs only 1300 with the F-35 plan you get more bang for your buck. I already know the F-35 is not far from the F-22 is terms of capability and the F-35 is the better choice for the USAF. You will have more jets that can cover a larger amount of enemy air space to gain air superiority with the full order of F-35s.
Right now the most common air to air loud out for the F-35 will be 4 internal AMRAAMs plus 2 external AIM-9s on the wing tips. I'm sure the Air Force will get the 6 internal AAM capability once the F-22 line closes and they have waken the hell up to realize the air force will not get more F-22s. Plus the 6 internal AAMs is part of the F-35s spiral development process. |
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datafuser
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Posted: Jun 24, 2008 - 01:20 AM
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Joined: Jul 12, 2007
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F15F16F22F35 wrote:
Hey what did you say to the f-35 program office and were did you send the email to?
It was Cheryl Limrick (cheryl.limrick at jsf.mil).
I'll ask exactly what work is being done for AMRAAM ejectors for stations 4 and 8. It will be interesting to see if she can answer that. |
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Obamanite
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Posted: Jun 24, 2008 - 02:24 AM
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datafuser wrote:
I'll ask exactly what work is being done for AMRAAM ejectors for stations 4 and 8. It will be interesting to see if she can answer that.
That's the kind of thing that I'm sure is need-to-know. No disrespect intended, but I can't imagine you are in that need-to-know crowd. Then again, it can't hurt for you to try to find out. Maybe you can tell them you're a "concerned tax-payer" who is thinking about writing your congressperson about the F-35's apparently slow and wasteful development program  |
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F15F16F22F35
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Posted: Jun 24, 2008 - 05:19 PM
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Joined: Jun 20, 2008
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datafuser wrote:
I'll ask exactly what work is being done for AMRAAM ejectors for stations 4 and 8. It will be interesting to see if she can answer that.
I just now sent them an email. It might take them a long time to reply if at all. |
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Corsair1963
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Posted: Jun 29, 2008 - 12:09 AM
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Joined: Dec 19, 2005
Posts: 670
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| Many JSF members will use the F-35 in a Air Defense/Air Superiority Role. As it will be there sole fighter.........I personally doubt that wasn't taken into consideration. Further, even the US Military will often use the Lightning in a Air to Air Mission. Clearly, the F-35A will supplement the F-22A with only 183 to be built! Also, the F-35B and C will be the primary fighter of the USMC and USN............. |
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Corsair1963
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Posted: Jun 29, 2008 - 12:17 AM
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Joined: Dec 19, 2005
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F15F16F22F35 wrote:
Obamanite wrote:
F15F16F22F35 wrote:
dwightlooi wrote:
checksixx wrote:
F15F16F22F35 wrote:
6 internal AMRAAMs on the F-35? COOL!!! Are they working on this right now or is this after SDD?
No plans for 6 internal AIM-120's right now. No one here will believe it. The thread has spiraled out of control.
The F-35 Program Office said that:-
(1) The F-35 will enter service with the ability to carry 4 AAMs internally plus up to 10 additional missiles externally.
(2) The F-35 weapon bays have room for additional air-to-air missiles and studies have been conducted on advancing launcher technology to capitalize on the additional space to carry more than 4 AAMs.
(3) Currently, there are no US plans, schedules or funding for the implementation of multi-AAM launchers for the internal stations.
Anything else you may or may not have heard is bullshit.
In short, 6 AAMs is physically possible but is not being pursed by the USA right now because it is low on the priority list. Unless Israel, Australia, the UK or some other F-35 partners who may be using the F-35 as their primary high superiority fighter chooses to develop a twin ejector for the F-35 internal bays using a few million of their own currency, such a device will not be available until the high priority tasks have been retired.
The priority is to stay on the revised schedule and get the F-35 into low-rate-initial-production by 2009, full rate production (132+ aircrafts per year) and IOC by 2012. The aircraft has to enter service with the baseline capability to prosecute the vast majority of anticipated A2A and precision strike missions with the core subset of possible loadouts. Additional capabilities and loadout options can come later.
http://www.jsf.mil/downloads/documents/ ... 202007.pdf
The other thing to consider that the AIM-120C/D may no longer be the contemporary AAM of the US armed services in 2016. There should be a new missile or one actively being developed. So, a question one has to ask is whether it is a wise thing to bend over backwards to squeeze out a dual ejector at a time when schedules and funding can least afford it only to get it in service in time for it to be retired.
14 AAMs thats much more than any other fighter. Any so why do people say the F-35 is not a good air superiority fighter if it can carry 14 AAMs?
I can see why they don't need 6 internal AAMs if it can already carry 14. If some partner nations do go for the 6 internal AAM than no doubt the U.S. will go for it too but as of right now no one is. 14 is more than enough.
Two things: first, 14 AAMs is theoretical and I doubt that would ever be an operational load, as I can't imagine a mission that would require a single airplane to carry more than a dozen AAMs. Second, such a load would ruin the F-35's VLO characteristics and negate its entire raison d'etre. Certainly, the ability for it to carry 6 internal AAMs will come in very handy not just for foreign air forces but for the USAF as well if it can only get approximately 180 Raptors as currently budgeted. Until the USAF's battle for more Raptors is either decisively won or lost, do not expect the F-35 to be cleared to carry more than 4 internal AAMs, as the USAF does not want to do or say anything that may make it apparent that the F-35's AA capability is not that far behind that of the F-22's.
The USAF really needs to drop the getting more than 183 F-22 bullshit. Their fighting a losing battle and the pentagon has maid it very clear that the Air Force is not getting more F-22s, and with the recent leadership change in the USAF and that both McCain and Obama don't seam to favor the F-22 very much the air force has already lost! They should fund the 6 internal AAMs for the F-35 ASAP!
Also I rather have the Air Force get only 183 F-22s and 1763 F-35s than 400 F-22s and only 900 F-35s. 1900 fighters vs only 1300 with the F-35 plan you get more bang for your buck. I already know the F-35 is not far from the F-22 is terms of capability and the F-35 is the better choice for the USAF. You will have more jets that can cover a larger amount of enemy air space to gain air superiority with the full order of F-35s.
Right now the most common air to air loud out for the F-35 will be 4 internal AMRAAMs plus 2 external AIM-9s on the wing tips. I'm sure the Air Force will get the 6 internal AAM capability once the F-22 line closes and they have waken the hell up to realize the air force will not get more F-22s. Plus the 6 internal AAMs is part of the F-35s spiral development process.
Well, the USAF dropped the ball yet again. Personally, I think they need "New Leadership"? If, they really wanted more F-22's. They should have supported its export! As the increased orders would have dropped the price and extented production out several years.............. |
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geogen
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Posted: Jun 30, 2008 - 12:49 AM
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Senior member
Joined: Mar 11, 2008
Posts: 421
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Corsair,
Don't write off the F-22 future production quite yet, nor the Vipers 
There's always another admin in the pipeline. |
_________________
The Super-Viper has not yet begun to concede.
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Corsair1963
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Posted: Jun 30, 2008 - 01:54 AM
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Forum Veteran
Joined: Dec 19, 2005
Posts: 670
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geogen wrote:
Corsair,
Don't write off the F-22 future production quite yet, nor the Vipers
There's always another admin in the pipeline.
Oh, I haven't.............JASDF is still a good possibility.  |
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geogen
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Posted: Jul 01, 2008 - 05:10 AM
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Senior member
Joined: Mar 11, 2008
Posts: 421
Status: Offline
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| USAF could be a good possibility in itself for future pipe line as well as JASDF, RAAF, RAF, sure... and maybe even MarsAF some day?? Who knows. |
_________________
The Super-Viper has not yet begun to concede.
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F15F16F22F35
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Posted: Jul 02, 2008 - 06:48 PM
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Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 20, 2008
Posts: 42
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| I do wounder if LM wanted to protect the F-22 then why in the hell did they say the F-35 could carry 6 internal AAMs? |
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dwightlooi
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Posted: Jul 03, 2008 - 02:14 AM
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Joined: Aug 01, 2006
Posts: 958
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F15F16F22F35 wrote:
I do wounder if LM wanted to protect the F-22 then why in the hell did they say the F-35 could carry 6 internal AAMs?
They didn't.
THe JSF office, not L-M, said that 4 can be carried at service entry and that there is room for more internal AAMs and studies have been done to advance launcher technology to take advantage of that. However, they also said that mission analysis do not necessitate the pursuit of these launchers at this time -- presumably dual ejectors for the 2,500 lbs internal stations. |
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F15F16F22F35
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Posted: Jul 03, 2008 - 05:30 PM
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Joined: Jun 20, 2008
Posts: 42
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dwightlooi wrote:
F15F16F22F35 wrote:
I do wounder if LM wanted to protect the F-22 then why in the hell did they say the F-35 could carry 6 internal AAMs?
They didn't.
THe JSF office, not L-M, said that 4 can be carried at service entry and that there is room for more internal AAMs and studies have been done to advance launcher technology to take advantage of that. However, they also said that mission analysis do not necessitate the pursuit of these launchers at this time -- presumably dual ejectors for the 2,500 lbs internal stations.
K.
I would expect LM will go for 6 internal AAMs after the F-35 enters service though. |
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Corsair1963
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Posted: Jul 04, 2008 - 05:32 PM
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Forum Veteran
Joined: Dec 19, 2005
Posts: 670
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dwightlooi wrote:
F15F16F22F35 wrote:
I do wounder if LM wanted to protect the F-22 then why in the hell did they say the F-35 could carry 6 internal AAMs?
They didn't.
THe JSF office, not L-M, said that 4 can be carried at service entry and that there is room for more internal AAMs and studies have been done to advance launcher technology to take advantage of that. However, they also said that mission analysis do not necessitate the pursuit of these launchers at this time -- presumably dual ejectors for the 2,500 lbs internal stations.
While, we know what has been said in public. I really have my doubts.......Clearly, it wouldn't be in the interests of LM to highlight the air-to-air capabilities of the F-35 (including 6-Internal AAM's) just as production of the F-22 in nearing to a close. Surely, they would like more orders either domestic (i.e. USAF) or foreign( i.e. Japan, Australia, Irsael, etc.) Further, as been stated over and over again. The F-35 will have a Air Defense/Air Superiority Role with many of its users! Personally, I have no doubt the studies to equip the F-35 with 6-AAM's are much further along than LM and the US Goverment would lead us to believe............... |
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