Forum: F-35 Lightning II

elp wrote:

Hi Corsair, good to see you.

Personally I'd like to see F-35 stick to their knitting and just get a workable Block I jet. I would even prefer a workable Block I or II that had no frills for now and add stuff later on a more extended spiril ( a method that served the Super Hornet program well ).

Here 2 A2A missiles internal, the ability to carry 2 laser/JDAMs or 2 500lb class enhanced Paveways or Paveway IV(UK) and a few JDAMs and/or few Paveways external...of course the internal gun and gun pod.... and.... pay for everything else on weapons certification on an extended schedule.

Yeah I bet you could put a bunch of A2A solutions on the jet. I just wan the thing delivered at a low price and btw if I had the basic ability mentioned above, a lot of targets could still be killed. I don't even care if the APG-81 has all of it's combat modes certified right away on the jet. However depending on the lab work this might be a non-issue anyway but you get my point.

I would even go agressive on the test and as soon as the first USAF production example gets up in the air. Fix it up quicky and prove it can drop a couple JDAMs ASAP and fire the gun. Doing this ASAP even if it isn't an all functionality thing would be outstanding PR for the program. After all the old prototype STOVL years ago did a dramatic demo, got up and did a super sonic run and came back down. 1 or 2 PR events like I mentioned above would have a positive effect for everyone,.... and yeah I know it isn't in the plan, but a low risk dramtic, heavily scripted weapons (er...basic certification for a highly scripted and safe drop) would be good.

Well, I am very optimistic about the price of the F-35. Yet, we are at that stage of the "chicken before the egg or the egg before the chicken"? As everybody wants there F-35's but nobody wants to pay the higher price for the first ones coming down the production line. That said, the demand is so great I believe it will works itself out rather quickly! Really, with so many werstern fighters in need of replacement. I think it would be better just to get a second production line up and running from the start. As LM in Fort Worth is just not going to be able to keep up! The JSF Program has two other production lines in the works besides the one in the US. With one in the UK and the other I think in Italy or was that Turkey? Regardless, US is just not going to be able to produce F-35 at the rates needed to supply the US Military and all of the JSF Partners from the get go!

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my opinion is that,F35 is made for NATO countries,its weaker than F22 so its not a threat to US...its similar when russians are selling their planes to russian partners... Wink

Nope...the russians are very liberal, they sold planes that are more powerfull than their own.
The F-35 is more powerfull than most planes in the US inventory right now.

Whatever they have any safeguards is another matter.

Su27_pilot wrote:

my opinion is that,F35 is made for NATO countries,its weaker than F22 so its not a threat to US...its similar when russians are selling their planes to russian partners... Wink

Is the F-16C weaker than the F-15C? Personally, I think not........each is just customized for a different role. That said, I think we will see fewer and fewer fighter types designed for a single role like the F-15C. As swing role aircraft have proved they can do many roles all within a single airframe.

Su27_pilot wrote:

what is Chicom?

Chinese Communist (aka People's Republic of China) - to be distinguished from Taiwan (aka The Republic of China).

I think it is safe to say that every weapons system is able to be defeated or circumvented with the proper equipment and planning. Everyone's technology has a weakness somewhere- either currently or most likely in the near future. However, nobody(usually) beats an opponent that is underestimated either.

Military secrets are the most fleeting by nature.

May I ask a question here...
If there were a air-to-air combat between F-35s ...(Red flag , Greece vs Turkey or so)
What would be the effective active homing distance of AMRAAM seeker vs F-35 in the Head on scenario? (ie: AMRAAM vs 0.0014m^2 RCS distance?)

CKAerospace wrote:

May I ask a question here...
If there were a air-to-air combat between F-35s ...(Red flag , Greece vs Turkey or so)
What would be the effective active homing distance of AMRAAM seeker vs F-35 in the Head on scenario? (ie: AMRAAM vs 0.0014m^2 RCS distance?)

??? Don't know for sure ???

But if the acquisition of the AMRAAM seeker is say 30km against an F-16, it should be in the order of about 3~4km against an F-35. This can be further degraded in a dense EW environment,.

dwightlooi wrote:

Scorpion1alpha wrote:

If anyone is looking for increased internal AMRAAM capability, it's the partner nations. Understandably, some will rely on their F-35s solely for air superiority while, as previously mentioned, the U.S. won't because we have something else. The issue though is that the F-35 is a U.S. program, with much of the funding coming from us, and again putting 4-6 AMRAAMs in the bays isn't a priority. Other nations might want this capability sooner, but it needs time and $$$ to be developed.

If the other nations want more internal AMRAAM capability, they need to fork out the dough to have this done.

4 AMRAAMs is was never even in question. That was required, funded and in progress. From the first day it enters service, all three versions of the F-35 will be able to carry 4 AMRAAMs internally. The only question is whether a 6AAM capability will be certified, and if so, when. This will require a dual ejector rack for the two 2,500 lb internal stations. This has been studied, planned for and deemed viable. However, at this time it is not being funded or pursued at this time due to the lack of a need by the USAF, USN and USMC.

What launcher is fitted to internal stations Nos 4 and 8 for AMRAAM?

Whatever it is, would it "push" the AMRAAM out of the weapon bay like the F-22 does with its AVEL?

datafuser wrote:

dwightlooi wrote:

Scorpion1alpha wrote:

If anyone is looking for increased internal AMRAAM capability, it's the partner nations. Understandably, some will rely on their F-35s solely for air superiority while, as previously mentioned, the U.S. won't because we have something else. The issue though is that the F-35 is a U.S. program, with much of the funding coming from us, and again putting 4-6 AMRAAMs in the bays isn't a priority. Other nations might want this capability sooner, but it needs time and $$$ to be developed.

If the other nations want more internal AMRAAM capability, they need to fork out the dough to have this done.

4 AMRAAMs is was never even in question. That was required, funded and in progress. From the first day it enters service, all three versions of the F-35 will be able to carry 4 AMRAAMs internally. The only question is whether a 6AAM capability will be certified, and if so, when. This will require a dual ejector rack for the two 2,500 lb internal stations. This has been studied, planned for and deemed viable. However, at this time it is not being funded or pursued at this time due to the lack of a need by the USAF, USN and USMC.

What launcher is fitted to internal stations Nos 4 and 8 for AMRAAM?

Whatever it is, would it "push" the AMRAAM out of the weapon bay like the F-22 does with its AVEL?

Yes. There is no rail launcher anywhere in the internal bays of the F-35. Even the door AMRAAMs are ejector launched not rail launched. Each and every weapon to be carried internally on the F-35 will have to be ejector launched (ala AMRAAMs on the F-22). There reason the AIM-9X is not usable in the door position for instance is that the AIM-9X is not currently capable of being ejector launched.

Clearly,with only 183 Raptor being constructed for the USAF. The F-35 will be used in the Air Superiority Role within the US Armed Forces. So, you can bet 6 internal AAM's will be a priority! As a matter of fact the current General of the Pacific Air Forces just stated that Okinawa Based F-15C units would be replaced with F-35A's!

dwightlooi wrote:

datafuser wrote:

dwightlooi wrote:

Scorpion1alpha wrote:

If anyone is looking for increased internal AMRAAM capability, it's the partner nations. Understandably, some will rely on their F-35s solely for air superiority while, as previously mentioned, the U.S. won't because we have something else. The issue though is that the F-35 is a U.S. program, with much of the funding coming from us, and again putting 4-6 AMRAAMs in the bays isn't a priority. Other nations might want this capability sooner, but it needs time and $$$ to be developed.

If the other nations want more internal AMRAAM capability, they need to fork out the dough to have this done.

4 AMRAAMs is was never even in question. That was required, funded and in progress. From the first day it enters service, all three versions of the F-35 will be able to carry 4 AMRAAMs internally. The only question is whether a 6AAM capability will be certified, and if so, when. This will require a dual ejector rack for the two 2,500 lb internal stations. This has been studied, planned for and deemed viable. However, at this time it is not being funded or pursued at this time due to the lack of a need by the USAF, USN and USMC.

What launcher is fitted to internal stations Nos 4 and 8 for AMRAAM?

Whatever it is, would it "push" the AMRAAM out of the weapon bay like the F-22 does with its AVEL?

Yes. There is no rail launcher anywhere in the internal bays of the F-35. Even the door AMRAAMs are ejector launched not rail launched. Each and every weapon to be carried internally on the F-35 will have to be ejector launched (ala AMRAAMs on the F-22). There reason the AIM-9X is not usable in the door position for instance is that the AIM-9X is not currently capable of being ejector launched.

OK, then are there ejectors for AMRAAM on stations No. 4 and No. 8 right now? If so, what's the type name of that AMRAAM ejector?

I doubt a single ejector type can handle both AMRAAM and 2,000lb JDAM.

datafuser wrote:

OK, then are there ejectors for AMRAAM on stations No. 4 and No. 8 right now? If so, what's the type name of that AMRAAM ejector?

I doubt a single ejector type can handle both AMRAAM and 2,000lb JDAM.

Don't know yet. On the F-22 the AVEL is designated LAU-142/A. Not sure about the 1,000 lbs ejector. The quad ejector rack for the small diameter bomb is the BRU-61/A.

On the F-35, we are not sure about the AMRAAM ejectors and 2,500 lbs ejector. The SDB goes in on the same BRU-61/A quad ejector rack.

dwightlooi wrote:

datafuser wrote:

OK, then are there ejectors for AMRAAM on stations No. 4 and No. 8 right now? If so, what's the type name of that AMRAAM ejector?

I doubt a single ejector type can handle both AMRAAM and 2,000lb JDAM.

Don't know yet. On the F-22 the AVEL is designated LAU-142/A. Not sure about the 1,000 lbs ejector. The quad ejector rack for the small diameter bomb is the BRU-61/A.

On the F-35, we are not sure about the AMRAAM ejectors and 2,500 lbs ejector. The SDB goes in on the same BRU-61/A quad ejector rack.

Well, if we are not sure whether there are AMRAAM ejectors on stations No. 4 and No. 8 right now, we cannot say the F-35 can carry four AMRAAMs internally.

datafuser wrote:

dwightlooi wrote:

datafuser wrote:

OK, then are there ejectors for AMRAAM on stations No. 4 and No. 8 right now? If so, what's the type name of that AMRAAM ejector?

I doubt a single ejector type can handle both AMRAAM and 2,000lb JDAM.

Don't know yet. On the F-22 the AVEL is designated LAU-142/A. Not sure about the 1,000 lbs ejector. The quad ejector rack for the small diameter bomb is the BRU-61/A.

On the F-35, we are not sure about the AMRAAM ejectors and 2,500 lbs ejector. The SDB goes in on the same BRU-61/A quad ejector rack.

Well, if we are not sure whether there are AMRAAM ejectors on stations No. 4 and No. 8 right now, we cannot say the F-35 can carry four AMRAAMs internally.

No, we are sure it can because that is a required and funded baseline capability. Just because no one in public knows the designation of or have seen the ejector does not mean it does not and will not exist.

We do not know the designation on the 2,500 lbs bomb ejector either. But we can be 100% sure it'll be there at service entry. The same thing goes for the AMRAAM AVEL.

Forum: F-35 Lightning II

Six AMRAAMs carried internally in the F-35