Forum: General

If you look at the numbers you can see why the T-birds are getting these block 52's. For one: before the 2005 BRAC only three bases flew the block 52; Mt. Home, Nellis, and McEntire ANGB. The jets at Mt. Home could of not gone to other Block 50 bases (ex. Misawa, Shaw, Spangdahlem) due to the diffrence in engines (GE vs. PW). The AF will not have variations in configurations, even the engine due to logistical reasons at the same base. Bases will only operate one type of engine for said reasons (except Edwards cause its test and they to wierd sh** out there anyways).

Now for the person boasting on about the T-birds "choosing" PW engines, sorry guy but they got Pratt jets buy default cause Nellis is a Pratt base.

So now you only have two places to send those birds from Mt. Home: Nellis and McEntire. So the question is- Who can handle the extra aircraft? McEntire is the only combat squadron that fly that Block and I doubt that South Carolina could afford two combat squadrons (although I have heard they have a quasi-training squadron made up from the extra aircraft they received from Mt. Home.

So now the only place left for them to go is Nellis. Now you have three units that operate the 16 there. Viper: which is test/aggresor that fly a mix - 32/42 for aggressors and 42/52 for test (very small fleet). 16 weapons school which (prior to BRAC) flew mainly 42s. And finally the T-birds, 32s. So now you have a dozen or so bastard jets and no where to put them. If you see now it is a somewhat logical choice. The 32s that the T-Birds are flying will be falling out of the sky in the next five years if kept flying the way they are now, so why not give them some newer birds that will last another ~10 years untill the F-35 is out there in enough numbers to give some to the demo team.

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sorry double post

logic prevails,,,,glad you saw that....nice one

Wow I didn't know the tbirds and SC ang are the only units flyin 52's. I thought the AF bought more 52's than that.

shiz302 wrote:

Are there any combat squadrons out there short of acft because of the T-Birds? Wink

No shiz,

The only "active" Block-52 unit is now the 157th FS / 169th FW of the South Carolina ANG. They also got additional aircraft from the 389th FS at Mountain Home AFB, ID.

The Weapons School at Nellis AFB, NV also flies Block-52s as well as the 53rd WG at Eglin AFB, FL. These units are tasked with various tests and training roles and other than those units there are no ore Block-52 units in the USAF.

I believe one reason is that those aircraft delivered to the "Thunderbirds" are too many to have in the 16th WPS and too few to create another unit.

Greetings,

Henrik.

Heres an Idea why not send the Mountain Home jets to a F-15 base. If i'm not mistaken all F-15's fly PW i could be wrong but i know the E and C models we had at mountain home had pratts. Or send them over here to Osan and get rid of these old a$$ jets. Just doesn't seem like a good idea to bring back block 30's to active duty and give the thunderbirds the newest 16's in the U.S . Just a thought any comments?

extinctls1 wrote:

If i'm not mistaken all F-15's fly PW..........

.

Yes, all US F-15s use some kind of PW engines.

Quote:

Or send them over here to Osan.......

Been there - done that. In the early 1990s the 36th TFS / 51st FW flew Pratt-powered Block-42s but in 1994 they were replaced by some of the current Block-40s.

ACC policy is not to send Pratt-powered aircraft to overseas units and I do not believe that these new T-Bird Block-52s have that less flight hours than the current "OS" Block-40s!! They are only a few years apart on the production line.

Greetings,

Henrik.

Viper-Spec, You nailed it - good comment!!

Greetings,

Henrik.

I understand the logistics of a PW airframe vs. a GE airframe; however, I fly the jets in combat. I have flown/fly the Bl 50, 40/42, & 30/32/25 - I wish I had the 29000# of thrust, the improved radar, and interrogator (AIFF) of a Bl50/52 vs. the old broke down systems in our Bl 40 CCIPs with mucho hours. It just seems like the AF chose their image over what the warfighters need - again! Again I say that they wasting airframes by giving to the to the "pretty" & useless vs. those who need the jets to fight the current & future wars.

Forum Veteran Joined: Jul 01, 2007 - 07:22 PM Posts: 605

The Eagles/Raptors are a protected species as are the toy planes. That leaves only the Vipers and Hogs to take up the slack. Our jobs are not long for this world. The Eagle/Raptor will have A-A and deep interdiction and the toys will have CAS. If the Dems get hold of DC they (AF leadership) will push harder for more Raptors/upgrades and trade off Lightnings as unnecessary and redundant. Which would you prefer to buy 381 Raptors or 1000+ Lightnings. Take into account the Raptor is already in production and operational (largely through its "teething" problems) whereas the lightning is untested and already racking up the cost overruns. Oh, by the way, no Viper driver can ever go to the Raptor so I guess I'll see you at Creech, huh VprWzl. Sad

Sweet! Now they can do air shows at night!!

fireball wrote:

The doublebubble was the 32 and the single bubble was the 52 #92-3880. the birds flew in the 2 bubble for the ceremony and the extra flyer. I don't know the # of the 32. But that's the way it is.
Doublebubble coming soon, it's in the hangar now getting the smoke oil drum and stuff.

92-3880 was my jet while i was at Mt.Home. i was able to see it come in to the Depot an leave as a thinderbird. how awesome!!!!

Quite the experience for you with 880. It's neat to see history in the making and somewhere along the line you were part of it.

To answer the question of why the T-Birds need block 52's:

I was on the team from 96-99 and the acft they had then and still have were wore out to say the least! The F-16 was designed to sustain 9 G's but not everyday. The T-Birds put acft through the a gauntlet of G's on every sortie they fly. I worked phase my first year there and we would pull the PDU panel and the longerons would be split in half. We left acft one at a showsite because the back bone split and was leaking fuel. With that said, it's apparent the block 32's they're flying are only good for so long and they NEED a replacement. Does it have to be blk 52's? No, but looking at the numbers does it make sense to pull acft from the blk 40 pool? No, the block 52 was built in small numbers and it's apparent because there are only a few bases with them so it only makes sense to equip the T-Birds with a newer F-16 that has life left in it which is the block 52. It is easily supported by the Nellis infrastructure with pratt engines in-place. OK, so why not give them block 42's? It's simple...the block 42 is under powered for it's weight. In reality a block 30 with a GE in it is the best candidate but that fleet is wore out and Nellis can't support the GE engine.

The moral of the story is the T-Birds are flying F-16's and it's not up to us to decide what block or year. The F-16 is a great acft for what they do and I salute the maintainers for keeping their current acft flying this long. It's says a lot about about the maintenace that's performed even though the public only sees the flying!

Here's on for the team! Cheers

Roger that! Salute

Staff Sgt. Wayne Frost, U.S. Air Force Air Demonstration Squadron crew chief, recovers the newest addition to the U.S. Air Force Thunderbirds, a Block-52 Lockheed-Martin Fighting Falcon F-16. (U.S. Air Force photo/Staff Sgt. Kristi Machado)

In addition to the new F-16, the Thunderbirds also welcomed five new officers for the 2008 demo season, including the

Forum: General

New Thunderbird commander accepts first Block 52 from Depot