Forum: F-22A Raptor

F-35 Lightning II:-

(1) Clear Superiority in A2A missions over all existing fighter aircrafts. In sensors yes, but put it in an adverse stealth event and it may be a big more naked. Example-Even if F-22 had poor/minimal stealth, it is still great power/performance, even in a naked adverse stealth event it has some juice.
(2) Ultimate penetration strike capability.By sensors and sensor fusion, "yes" to a point. Consider early early on that when the services were sitting at a table USN wanted a two seat jet. Consider that people that fly the Super Hornet ( a shout out to INO ) claim Block II two seat Super Hornets are as good as it gets in sharing the workload. Navy is unmovable on stating that two seat cocpits are preferred for attack. Consider the "sensor fusion" Block II Super enjoys is a large portion of tech/lessons learned of technique Boeing would have used if they won the JSF contract.

Hanging "ultimate" on JSF would go so far as (assuming everything works on it... remember they will trade capability for cost targets and there is still a lot of work to do ).... JSF should be about as good as it gets for a single seat attack pilot.
Finally, even USAF knows F-22/JSF is a two level combo team. JSF wasn't meant to go up against high end area SAMs. Then too because of it's slightly lower quality in stealth 8~12.5 GHz vs F-22 1~12.5 GHZ, sliding down into S-Band which is part of the mix for high end area SAMs, JSF is going to have a few challenges.
Assuming F-35 works, it will do quite well. However consider also that unless USAF gets B-52SOJ, we are still going to come up short. When you team up Super Hormenent F and G ( Growler escort jammer) you have a package that gives you two seat attack and jamming that can go down through the mid and lower band threat stuff too. The words ultimate attack for JSF is a sliding scale of compromise on an aircraft that has it's big goal as being affordable.
(3) Better range than the F-22.Similar enough not to matter. See below)
(4) Good payload and bomb trucking ability when stealth is not needed.Agree. Plus the E/O laser pod is built in
(5) Best overall sensor and networking package than any fighter including the F-22.For a single seat battlefield interdictor/CAS aircraft. Network is still a red spot on the plan. Most likely as they want to get further along and decide later how much of the older legacy NCW stuff they want to support by delivery date and also how much of that network capability can be safely exported.
(6) Most advanced next generation pilot interface and situational awareness aids in the world.
(7) $45~60 million unit cost.Hopefully once we get past the 1500-1600 mark. Cost of development may change this. There are already complaints that some of the problems they have now are things that should have been figured out before they went into the SDD phase.
(8 ) Lower maintenance and logistics footprint than ALL existing fighter aircrafts.Lets hope so. They sure promise a lot. Like all new fighters, at what rate the spares consume will be interesting to see. With all their other concerns, especially costs in SDD trying to figure out stuff, JSF has a good chance to look more like the long spiral of Super Hornet/FIRST logistics in order to save cost targets. I'd do a wait and see on this.

F-22 Raptor:-

(1) Absolute Dominance in A2A missions over all existing fighter aircrafts.
(2) Limited penetration strike capability. Not really. Define "limited". Better stealth combined with super cruise means being able to lower enemy missile no escape zones. This aircraft will go into IADS where others aren't practical
(3) Worse range than the F-35.Not this again. This was covered already. Consult and calculate effective ground speed with a super cruise burst at oh, lets say 65k plus feet. In the end you may find they are about the same. Also piggy ( the carrier variant has a lot of proof flying to do )
(4) Similar payloads, but more limited ordnance selection in bomb trucking missions. External payload comparisons would put the F-22 at advantage. Internal only with A2G weapons, with F-22 you get extra AIM9s. Super sonic release of JDAM means longer JDAM shots ( important in contempt of engagement in SEAD/DEAD. Same for SDB although SDB trials are on going. The doors on JSF are yet to prove themselves on that area ( SS release ). I'd do a wait and see )
(5) Larger aperture radar than the F-35 with adequate supporting sensors and networking package.Agree here, however they are still figuring out what kind of network they want to put on both. F-22 has an F-22 only network that has limits. The longer range of the 77 is important yet the whole system works on AN/ALR-94 doing as much of the sensing as is absolutely tolerable. I still claim JSF software people have a lot of work ahead of them. When it is done they will have an awesome package for sure
(6) Current generation pilot interface and situational awareness aids.
(7) $120~330 million unit cost - Like many things variable. Consider in 2005 dollars, if you got 750 F-22s, it would be around $59 million apiece rolling off the factory floor not counting all the extra stuff needed to fly it. As our dollar races to become the peso, the costs of material and manpower are going to be interesting over the next 20 plus years. Then of course; how much would an F-16 cost if only 183 were ever made?
(8 ) Reasonable maintenance and logistics foot print for a stealth aircraft. It will be interesting "how L.O. can they go" with JSF trying to meet all the awesome easy to maintain claims in this respect. Example, that F-22 corrosion finding is partly because they did a no compromise approach to low observable design on F-22 where the goal of JSF is the best exportable and affordable stealth one can come up with.

F-35 Lightning II:-

(3) Better range than the F-22.
F-22 Raptor:-

(3) Worse range than the F-35.

In sensors yes, but put it in an adverse stealth event and it may be a big more naked. Example-Even if F-22 had poor/minimal stealth, it is still great power/performance, even in a naked adverse stealth event it has some juice.

Finally, even USAF knows F-22/JSF is a two level combo team. JSF wasn't meant to go up against high end area SAMs. Then too because of it's slightly lower quality in stealth 8~12.5 GHz vs F-22 1~12.5 GHZ, sliding down into S-Band which is part of the mix for high end area SAMs, JSF is going to have a few challenges.

F-22 worse range than F-35? where did you hear this? Im just curious.