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Quote:

http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,153122,00.html?wh=wh

Dutch Reveal Cost of First JSF Aircraft
Aviation Week's DTI | Joris Janssen Lok | October 19, 2007
The first Joint Strike Fighter aircraft to be ordered by the Netherlands, an F-35A to be used in the Operational Test & Evaluation (OT&E) program for the type, will cost approximately $142 million, the Netherlands defense ministry said October 17.

The Dutch are planning to participate in the OT&E program with two aircraft, the preliminary order for the first of which is to be placed at the end of this year.

According to the defense ministry, Lockheed Martin will start ordering long lead items for the OT&E aircraft at the beginning of 2008, and The Hague is expected to pay 10% of the cost of the first jet, an estimated $14.2 million, at that point.

The final and legally binding contract for the first aircraft is to be signed in 2009, the ministry says.

The second OT&E aircraft is to be ordered one year later.

The OT&E aircraft are standard F-35A production aircraft equipped with test instrumentation.

It is of course worth noting that this isn't a full production aircraft and it will be instrumented as well, nontheless this is a heavy price tag for an aircraft which was required to be affordable. How would you rate the chances that the full production examples will come in at a price tag of 44-~60 mln $ (depending on the version) which was the projected fly-away price in 2006?

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These are not series production. The price imputated is for the research aircraft and the costs of research behind it. Series production aircraft will be arround 65 mil. Thats why the rest are wayting for the export price tags.

Otherwise it wouldnt make any sense to have the F-35 even more expensive than the F-22.

I expect Thumper to drop by and comment the same for the 120 million price tag for the Eurofighter now. Wink

Elite 1K Joined: Jan 31, 2004 Posts: 1525 Status: Offline

In all honesty....who the hell decided it was necessary to report the price of the test jets without explaining it in the context of the program as a whole? If it was required by Dutch law then fine. But if some schmuck at the MoD just decided on a whim to call up the press and say "Oh, by the way..." then it was a frankly stupid move. It just gives project opponents ammo to spin the story to suggest that ALL F-35s will cost that much 'cause they know the average taxpayer probably doesn't understand the concept of "if you make more of it, it'll cost less".

We have known all along that the first 424 LRIP F-35s would be expensive. What's your point Scorpion?

The fact remains that a full production batch of Eurofrauders still cost 122 million each and that's without an AESA radar.

I know the facts are inconvenient for you Scorpion but face up to it. It was airplanes and the flight manual only with the Saudis. At least thats what is being published. Obviously you have further insight of course.

(happy Pilatasso)

Quote:

who the hell decided it was necessary to report the price of the test jets without explaining it in the context of the program as a whole?

Someone who is trying to get the Dutch to buy European that's who. Of course it's ridiculous but you have to understand with the delays of the JSF the EF consortium sees an opening to sell more Eurofrauders. Hence, all the bogus comparisons.

Thumper3181 wrote:

The fact remains that a full production batch of Eurofrauders still cost 122 million each and that's without an AESA radar.

I know the facts are inconvenient for you Scorpion but face up to it. It was airplanes and the flight manual only with the Saudis. At least thats what is being published. Obviously you have further insight of course.

(happy Pilatasso)

Happy? Me?
yes I am.
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRHeft/ ... R0309d.htm

flug-revue wrote:

Because interest rates have fallen since the announcement in May, the price has fallen by Euro 10 million. It now comes to Euro 1.959 billion. This covers the 18 aircraft (including aircraft cannon and weapons stations), training for pilots and technical staff, logistics, some maintenance and a simulator. The full, fly-away price of a single Eurofighter works out at Euro 62.9 million (altogether Euro 1.121 billion).

So.. 122 million huh? As much an F-22 Raptor. LMAO

Get your facts straight.
Im sticking with the 60 ish million figure. You keep your bias for yourself.

Thumper3181 wrote:

We have known all along that the first 424 LRIP F-35s would be expensive. What's your point Scorpion?

The fact remains that a full production batch of Eurofrauders still cost 122 million each and that's without an AESA radar.

I know the facts are inconvenient for you Scorpion but face up to it. It was airplanes and the flight manual only with the Saudis. At least thats what is being published. Obviously you have further insight of course.

Once again your stupid, arrogant, biased bullsh!t crawls out of you. It was not my intenrion to make any "comparison" with the Typhoon, I did not even mentioned it. So what's your point, accusing me for things I haven't to do with, because you don't like me or what?
And you would know what's my point if you had read and understand my post, you obviously haven't!

Quote:

Someone who is trying to get the Dutch to buy European that's who. Of course it's ridiculous but you have to understand with the delays of the JSF the EF consortium sees an opening to sell more Eurofrauders. Hence, all the bogus comparisons.

Yeah of course its Eurofighter's fault that these price was released Rolling Eyes

Damn what's wrong with you?

Pilotasso, it seems to me that most people are comparing the price of fighters in US dollars, so a 63 million Euro fighter would be about 126 million US. So it does appear as thought he Typhoon cost as mush as a Raptor, but I am sure the F-22 costs more.

Euro = 1.4 Dollars. Wink

And it was 1.2 Dollars just months ago. So I wouldnt say 60 million Euro=126 Million dollars just yet, maybe in a distant future Laughing

well this is the price for the experimental one... its not gonna be like that when the production takes place. once the program starts deivering, the cost will go down, and by the production time it will be around 6o million or so

Enthusiast Joined: Sep 30, 2007 Posts: 52 Status: Offline

prototypes usually cost a lot more than production models, but JSF cost-overrun is really spiraling out of control Crying or Very sad

. so much at stake, so many unmet promises....

well... its a higly anticipated fighter. and alot of air forces are waiting for the 5th gneration fighter to meet their needs and alot are willing to pay a bit more.

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2847

U.S.D. next bench mark comparison will be against the Peso. Laughing

general_samkari wrote:

well... its a higly anticipated fighter. and alot of air forces are waiting for the 5th gneration fighter to meet their needs and alot are willing to pay a bit more.

If it would just be a bit. The original projected fly-away price for the F-35 was 28-38 mln USD back in the 90s. Last year the projected fly-away price was given with 44-~60 mln USD per copy. It's of course right that this first aircraft will not be a full production aircraft and it is therefore going to be more expensive. The question is how the final price will look like. LM still refuses to guarantee a fixed price.

Quote:

Pilotasso, it seems to me that most people are comparing the price of fighters in US dollars, so a 63 million Euro fighter would be about 126 million US. So it does appear as thought he Typhoon cost as mush as a Raptor, but I am sure the F-22 costs more.

The Saudi deal was reported in pounds, not Euros. Reuters (not exactly an American friendly media outlet) reported the deal to be worth 4.43 Billion Pounds for 72 aircraft. So that there is absolutely no doubt as to what has been reported the exact quote is below.

"the Saudi Arabian defence ministry earlier in the day said a deal for the aircraft had been signed for the jets -- excluding weapons and maintenance -- worth 4.43 billion pounds ($8.84 billion)."
http://www.reuters.com/article/companyN ... 1420070917

For our European friends who may have a bit of trouble with the English language that means they paid 4.43 billion pounds for 72 aircraft and 72 owners manuals. They did not get fuel, they did not get weapons, they did not get maintenance.

Now as for math, the universal language it's simple.

4.43/.072 = 61.527 Billion pounds. At current exchange rates thats 126.08 million dollars a copy.

Now lets keep in mind. This is not for pre-production aircraft but for production models. For the money they don't get stealth, and they don't get an AESA. Must be nice to have money to burn and Uncle Sam to bail you out if you get in serious trouble.

it is of note that the figure being publicised on the saudi deal is for not just the aircraft when the details are researched and not just press reports. In that cost is a full weapons package and the cost of full engineering support in saudi for around 20 years. A similar deal to what they got with tornado and have again with the tornado upgrade program.

The cost does not represent just the cost for the aircraft and should be adjusted accordingly.

Andy

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