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Newbie Joined: Jan 04, 2008 Posts: 3 Status: Offline

<a href="news_article2698.html">F-16IN proposal for India unveiled</a>

I don't get it - why does a foreign country like India get all the bells and whistles like AESA and Supercruise on a F-16 and our pilots can't get that good stuff? What if India decides to ship a couple of F-16s to Russia and China so they could study them?

What's our government thinking? Better yet, what's Lockheed thinking?
And why don't our pilots get the very best?

What is happening to the United States? Someone care to explain this
to me, please?

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Last edited by TimmayMan on Jan 26, 2008 - 04:10 PM; edited 1 time in total

The U.S. isn't buying any more 16s(that might change). They want to hold out for the F-35. The last 16 was delivered in 05. I guess people will sell to the highest bidder although I don't agree with a country like India having topshelf U.S. military equipment.

I wonder what kind of changes have been made to get the 16 to supercruise. Thats going to take some serious thrust at mil to pull off supercruise by U.S. Dod standards. I know the -132 and -232 motors are powerful but I don't see them being powerful enough to make a combat loaded 16 supercruise.

they wouldnt be, it prolly supercruises in the old standard (exceeds Mach 1 in mil power in clean configuration) in which case most all fighters since the F-4 could do it at some altitude.

Elite 1K Joined: May 10, 2005 Posts: 1124 Status: Offline

I don't think its that bad. I don't want to get into a whose jet is better argument, but they also fly the latest Russian designs that are quite a bit more capable than the latest vipers. Also, keep in mind, that our (US) jets are not anything close to being slouches. I'm pretty sure the ChiComs have a fantastic idea about what the viper is capable of.

Lockheed is in business to make money for it's stockholders and foreign military sales have to be approved by the State Dept.

Enthusiast Joined: Oct 19, 2006 Posts: 96 Status: Offline

All of these rumors of a new F-16IN with "supercruise" capability that is supposedly unique to this version of the airplane really need to be put back into perspective.

The rumored F-16IN "supercruise" capability was built out of a Lockheed Martin press conference, where one of Lockheed's test pilots volunteered that he had routinely flown F-16s (existing F-16s) at supersonic speeds, while in military power:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/F-16 ... 706209.cms
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/graham-warwick/

The journalists in attendance siezed on this remark, and a "supercruise" story was born.

The fact that existing F-16 models can already break the sound barrier when in a clean configuration should not be a surprise to anyone. The F-16XL could do it decades ago with less thrust than the current F-16 Block 50/52s . It's also militarily pointless to fly a clean airplane at just above the sound barrier. To be useful in a combat scenario, the airplane needs to be able to supercruise at Mach 1.5 or more, with a meaningful weapons package - not at Mach 1.1 with no missiles.

The F-16IN will offer new capabilities - in its electronics package. But I wouldn't look for flight performance that's anything different from what you see today.

Elite 2K Joined: May 13, 2004 Posts: 2945 Location: Utah

All I will say is it is (one thought anyway) "hype and salesmanship" at its finest for LM Aero and the Indian Government.

Keep in mind, India needs to "sell" this cost of this weapons system to their people (general population) too so how better to accomplish that requirement then to "hype" the sales pitch regardless of the aircraft capabilities that is known general speaking.

It is what the media does best, think about it. Just " sales techniques" at it's finest....nothing more - no big deal really.

The geopolitical factors concerning India are very crucial. They have been more or less hostile to the US for decades and have mostly bought Russian equipment (along with some Brit stuff like the Sea Harrier). We would dearly like the Indians to be an ally in the GWOT. The Islamic extremists hate them at least as much as they do us, and they have a very great potential in the 21st Century.

Selling them Vipers and other top-line equipment makes a lot of sense, IMHO.

Enthusiast Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 88 Status: Offline

I would think an F-16 with two sidewinders and full cannon ammo would be able to supercruise.

Elite 2K Joined: May 13, 2004 Posts: 2945 Location: Utah

I think it is a whole lot about nothing.....but that is just me - wait until the hyper drive comes out, right now it is sold as a modification only LMAO

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2862

Meathook wrote:

I think it is a whole lot about nothing.....but that is just me - wait until the hyper drive comes out, right now it is sold as a modification only LMAO

(Gums is working on the warp drive development option for the F-16)

(Cylon is working on the... {well we can guess} ) Laughing

Enthusiast Joined: Nov 21, 2005 Posts: 79 Status: Offline

POLITICS AND MONEY!!!!!!!! And I am pretty sure we aren't trying to sell anything that is sensitive to either national security or technology integrity. Plus, like above, its a hell of a sales pitch (look at me, I can SUPERCRUISE witn my super cool AESA radar!!!!)

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Why does India get F-16s with AESA and Supercruise?