Forum: F-16 versus XYZ

Newbie Joined: Sep 09, 2007 Posts: 3 Status: Offline

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/f-16i/

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article10.html

http://www.defense-update.com/products/f/F-16e-f.htm

I'm not an airman so I was just wondering in the event of an Israeli-Pan Arab conflict, if UAE F-16 Block 60F's were flown against the backbone of the IAF, the 'Soufa', which two seater F-16 would come out on top (A2A), say in a hypothetical encounter over the Saudi desert (1 Soufa vs 1 F-16F) assuming there are no supporting AWACS, GCI support or other opposing fighters in the air?

ie. Which variant has superior avionics, performance, weapons fit and range in A2A?

Many thanks!

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Newbie Joined: Sep 10, 2007 Posts: 1 Status: Offline

Hmm, I'm a new poster here curious on a related point, here seemed the best place to query.

2 seat vs one? Weren't the Huds and digital screens supposed to make workload so much easier? (not f16 specifically).

I had read things like the Eurofighter only needed one seat now because of it's modern cockpit & avionics; also that the rafale (which I love visualy BTW) was crap because it's cockpit/electronics were useless and too busy. No idea of the truth, just wondering about the 1 vs 2 thing.

The sufas are primarily strike aircraft. So 2 seat strike, one seat air defence?

But then by that standard ANY multirole should be 2 seat. I just don't get how it all fits together. AFAIK the f-15 for Korea & Singapore are 2 seat. (correct?). The new Aussie F-18's are 2 seaters right? The UAE f-16s are single seat multirole.

I'm just not sure I understand what disadvantage a 2 seat f-16 has over a one seat for a multirole plane, besides the obvious training/fuel/cost/lose 2 pilots senario.

I'm wondering if a 2 seat block 60 might be more useable for any role it's asked to do than than a single seater.

An armchair warrior, confused Cool

Newbie Joined: Oct 28, 2007 Posts: 5 Status: Offline

the F16I has better WVR missiles, and its one of its huge advantages. Some IAF pilots claimed (i think after the training with the USAF), that the IAF tactics are to attack fast and from close range, unlike americans that prefer their systems and BVR missiles.

Bloack 60s radar is better than F16I radar (i wonder if the EL\M 2032 or EL\M2052 are better than the block 60 radar).
about avionics, no one can give an answer, but its known that israeli industry is very advance, and there are reasons why israel choose its own avionics (Israel wanted to install its own radar, USA didnt agree for that).

me guess is on the F16I with python 5 and israeli pilot.

BTW, does someone know if the block 60 has IRST?

I too think Block 60 have a tremendous radar advantage over the others. But I think it wouldnt be so much that Piloting wouldnt be the deciding factor. Since Israelis are much better trained and battle experince tactics, I think the I's have more potential than the UAE counterparts. After all were still talking about same plane of the same generation.

Chaos the block 60 does have IRST.

Elite Joined: Nov 27, 2004 Posts: 535 Status: Offline

Comparing with F-16C/D Block52:

F-16I: 30~35% hardware and software components are replaced by the new equipements.

F-16E: around 70% hardware (including the radar and engine) and nearly 100% software components are replaced by the new ones.

So I think it is needless to say that which one should be the better Falcon............

Newbie Joined: Oct 28, 2007 Posts: 5 Status: Offline

toan, it doesnt matter how much systems were replaced, but how advance they are.

Elite Joined: Nov 27, 2004 Posts: 535 Status: Offline

I don't think UAE has the interest to pay 80 million USD per unit for an almost brand new Falcon (F-16E) with great modification that are less capable than a Falcon (F-16I) with moderate modification and the price of 45 million USD per unit.

F-16C/D Block52 --> 30~35% hardware and software components are replaced by the new equipements --> F-16I --> Another 35%~40% hardware and all software components are replaced by the new ones --> F-16E.

If F-16I were more capable than F-16E, then:

1. The UAE AF would be the dumbest AF in the world.

2. The Lock-Mart would be the damnest lier on earth.

Elite Joined: Nov 27, 2004 Posts: 535 Status: Offline

The radar that F-16I uses now is still APG-68V9 ~ USA government does not allow Israel AF to put Israel radar into F-16I.

APG-68V9: 30% more detection / tracking range comparing with APG-68V5.

APG-80: 2 to 3 times in detection / tracking range comparing with APG-68V5.

Elite Joined: Oct 21, 2005 Posts: 735 Status: Offline

IMO, the Blk 60 is the better of the two compared and is the best overall Viper ever built.

One more point:

The AESA radar of the blk60 can also be in A-A & A-G mode simultaneously.
Such thing offers a tremendous advantage in deep penetration missions, especially for a 2-seater (one seat A-A, the other A-G).

Forum: F-16 versus XYZ

UAE F-16E/F Block 60 vs IAF F-16I 'Soufa'