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The real problem is not the radar mode your locking the missile with. Its the fact you simply dont know how fast the datalink is to update target data, nor can you tell if the innertial kit is precise enough. I strongly suspect Aircrafts own radar precision is not enough and that alone destroys any chance of it being datalinked all the way to target.

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elp's post says these:
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-9268.html

Quote:

If a hostile aircraft is injudicious in its use of radar, the ALR-94 may provide nearly all the information necessary to launch an AIM-120 AMRAAM air-to-air missile (AAM) and guide it to impact, making it virtually an anti-radiation AAM.

So, this brings a new heat on the discussion if AMRAAM can go all the way to the target without going active. Now, if you want to quote and bash, do so for the guy who wrote that article, I'm merely reposting the replication of the article by our good friend, elp !

Senior member Joined: Jul 01, 2007 Posts: 368

Use caution guys, you're bordering on a vault type discussion. Tactics aren't the greatest type of conversation to have on an open forum. Just sayin'.

Elite 1K Joined: Aug 19, 2004 Posts: 1092

SnakeHandler wrote:

Use caution guys, you're bordering on a vault type discussion. Tactics aren't the greatest type of conversation to have on an open forum. Just sayin'.

Nobody involved in this discussion knows anything about the AIM-120 that's not in the public domain. I know I don't at least. I would think everyone else is in the same boat. It's all just speculation based on what is known. If this isn't the right forum for such discussions, what forum is? And as I've told others before, if you're in the know you don't confirm or deny anyone else's speculations. If these forums are monitored as the signs say, I'm sure the Men in Black will be visiting the national security violators soon enough.

Senior member Joined: Jul 01, 2007 Posts: 368

You've been watching way too much tv. Laughing

Elite 1K Joined: Aug 19, 2004 Posts: 1092

SnakeHandler wrote:

You've been watching way too much tv. Laughing

Actually, no. There are "Men in Black" so to speak. I think they're the OSI (Office of Special Investigations???). And I've spoken to people who have top secret clearance/knowledge and know what kind of responses they give when asked sensitive questions. They don't say what people on this forum say. They say next to nothing... sometimes nothing. In fact, one person who used to fly F-15s told me he wasn't going to confirm or deny anything I was speculating on. So who's been watching too much TV now? Wink

My only point is that the people on this forum who love to cry foul (OPSEC Nazis?) are often so far out of the loop that they don't even know how to properly respond to public domain discussions on (potentially) sensitive military capabilities.

Senior member Joined: Jul 01, 2007 Posts: 368

Sure dude, I'm completely out of the loop. I have no idea what I'm talking about. By the way, the Chief of OSI will get a kick out of this next time I talk to him. Rolling Eyes

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 26, 2005 Posts: 1455 Status: Offline

OUCH!

Elite 1K Joined: Aug 19, 2004 Posts: 1092

SnakeHandler wrote:

Sure dude, I'm completely out of the loop. I have no idea what I'm talking about. By the way, the Chief of OSI will get a kick out of this next time I talk to him. Rolling Eyes

Oh wow... "The Chief". How exciting! I wasn't referring to you being out of the loop but to the majority of people on this forum who go ape$h!t over threads like this. Anyway, just ask your chief buddy if it's proper procedure to give someone an indication that they may be revealing classified details about weapon systems on a public forum. In other words, if I post something based on what I read in a Jane's reference book here, is it proper for someone else to come along and say, "Hey... watch what you're saying bro! That's touching on some classified information." Of course it's not. That's like saying, "Ouch... how'd you figure that out? Ohhh... and stop talking about it because it's a secret." You're confirming that someone is right... not good. Denying is equally bad because you're still giving away information.

So the people that are out of the loop are the people that come into these threads telling others to watch their mouths and so on. If they actually knew anything classified about the AIM-120 or similar weapon systems, they wouldn't be posting a damn thing in this thread. If they were really concerned about the discussion, I suppose they'd report it to the proper governmental agency. Right? So neither confirming nor denying someone's speculations on a classified weapon system only happens in TV? What do the big boys do in real life? Deny or confirm? If it's not both, it must be one or the other, right?

And Snypa777... your little two-bit comment is childish. What are you... SnakeHandler's lackey? You think he's the cooler guy here so you'll get on his side? Amusing... but trifle as well.

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 26, 2005 Posts: 1455 Status: Offline

Why do people get so upset around here? A humour injection is what was needed. Right now nobody is looking very "cool".

Elite 1K Joined: Aug 19, 2004 Posts: 1092

Ouch! I'm upset! Hehe...

Senior member Joined: Jul 01, 2007 Posts: 368

No kiddin' snypa. It seems the only one goin' ape$&!t around here is R1. If he bothered to actually READ what I wrote, I gave away no indication of the borderline conversation being right or wrong. All I said was that it is not good to discuss tactics in a forum such as this. That would be ANY kind of tactics. You can talk systems capes and basic handling all day long. I actually enjoy reading what R1 thinks is right. I got a real kick out of his lack of knowledge in the "is the turbojet dead" forum. I love how in that forum and this one he stated his position, told everyone else that they were wrong and how ignorant they are. Then, when someone stands up to him (ie. TEG, who actually knows what he is talking about) he backs down and tries to cover his a$$ by saying that he was talking about "other" people on this forum and not the ones he is currently engaged with. He does all this without even researching his topic first. If he did, then he'd have known that every T-38 and F-5 in the WORLD uses turbojets.

R1, if you had bothered to research the AIM-120 you would know that the Pakistanis have it. So by any reasonable interpolation, if the Pakistanis have it, then everyone knows what it can do. Once again, to make things clear, its the tactics not the systems.

By the way, you don't need to attack others just because they don't agree with you. THAT is the definition of childish. These forums are for fun and entertainment. These aren't serious discussions. If you can't accept that and have a mature, adult conversation then I suggest you stop logging on to this site. If you do want a serious discussion, then get off your computer and join the Air Force and work in the intel field. Confused

Elite 1K Joined: Aug 19, 2004 Posts: 1092

SnakeHandler... you obviously have nothing to contribute to this thread, so how's 'bout you just leave it be? And I'll discuss tactics if I want. If you have a problem with public domain discussion of air combat tactics, you should report Robert Shaw to your OSI buddy for his book Fighter Combat: The Art and Science of Air-to-Air Combat.

Elite 1K Joined: Apr 26, 2004 Posts: 1215 Status: Offline

Snake...you are correct, this does border on vault material. Enough said.

Enthusiast Joined: Nov 06, 2006 Posts: 65 Status: Offline

R1, SnakeHandler was doing nothing more than politely telling you what you were trying to discuss borders on "vault talk." There was no need for you to be condescending about it.

And for you to say he has nothing to contribute to this discussion... I am positive he has more to add to this than you can imagine. How many tactics manuals have you read? I am betting you are intimately familiar with the 3-1 series, no? Particularly vol.5? As far as I know your claim to fame is you do flight modeling on Falcon 4.0. I am sure Snake is pretty damn familiar with these manuals and other like them, so he can add a ton to this discussion. The reason he doesn't ... job security. And from what I hear Ft. Leavenworth sucks.

I love reading these threads, but I hate posting. Especially on stuff like this. I could probably Google search AMRAAM tactics right now and bring in some stuff that may be accurate. The difference between me posting it, and you posting it here, however, is very different. You see if someone asks you where you got the info, you can say "I googled it." and they'll give you the benefit of the doubt. For those of us in the "Biz" however, we do not have that to use in our defense. Why? 'cause we also have access to similar info that has a little (S//NF) [or add any caveat you like] qualifier to it, which means even if it is out there on the news or open source, we do not talk about it. I am no longer a flyer, but I am still in the "Biz" and must still censure what I say, 'cause I can get in more trouble than it is worth just to make a post on forums like this about tactics that I would assume to be common knowledge.

R1, I generally enjoy your post. You seem to have a pretty good grasp of what you post about in these forums. But when your experience is entry level engineering and Flight Sim modeling, and you are arguing with someone with real life Air Tactics experience about air tactics, you come off looking like an a$$.

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