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Even more funny is the fact that the russian flag is white blue red, not red blue white. Laughing

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Newbie Joined: Nov 23, 2007 Posts: 1 Status: Offline

It's a Serbian flag that is wasting valuable bandwidth on SU27 fanboy's posts. He is inadvertently entertaining.

Newbie Joined: Mar 13, 2008 Posts: 18 Status: Offline

It is tragic that the biggest threat to the F-22 is not from the Su-35 or any other aircraft for that matter, it is economics. Al Queda with a $100,000 investment on an evil attack on the World Trade Centre has caused the US to pour some $500 billion dollars into dealing with it. The US government has borrowed their kids money to finance their wars after 911 forcing there children to pay it back to the Chinese and Arab Sheiks with interest.

What makes this worse is that both Chavez and Ahmadinejad sabre rattle every couple of weeks to force the oil price up. They both know they could not survive a conflict with the US but the underlying tactic is to damage the US by high oil prices and get rich in the process. With the US exporting $400 billion for oil each year it is working which will be a greater threat to the F-22 than any other aircraft.

Money is the life blood of any armed forces. The US government must balance its budget or risk their national security.

Enthusiast Joined: Mar 27, 2008 Posts: 43 Status: Offline

enjoy manuvers....Su-35

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY8Yv8AM-p8

MiG35 OVT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyRAGrqs ... re=related

Bluewolf, well stated. You couldn't have summarized the point more concisely. Interesting however, and rather tragic, that even with $110/bbl oil, Chavez is reportedly having to 'borrow' his respective people's kids' money, fronted by a Russian bank, to fund purchase of 4 new subs. Kremlin is happy to bank on that and of course the poverty stricken kids will be indebted for decades on that single purchase.

Perhaps while Chavez is graciously subsidizing cheap gas to some Americans, US govt should send at least some beef and chickens to good peoples of Venezuela as token of our reciprocated good will?

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 20, 2005 Posts: 1035 Status: Offline

bluewolf20 wrote:

What makes this worse is that both Chavez and Ahmadinejad sabre rattle every couple of weeks to force the oil price up. They both know they could not survive a conflict with the US but the underlying tactic is to damage the US by high oil prices and get rich in the process. With the US exporting $400 billion for oil each year it is working which will be a greater threat to the F-22 than any other aircraft.

The real crime is right here at home...we get VERY little oil from the Arabian area and little oil from Chavez.

Enthusiast Joined: Oct 27, 2004 Posts: 44

checksixx wrote:

The real crime is right here at home...we get VERY little oil from the Arabian area and little oil from Chavez.

Aye, while for you US people the oil price has tripled in the last 5 years, it has only doubled for us Europeans at relative prices.

Fix the home economy and the government might have more funds to spend on new fighters.

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 20, 2005 Posts: 1035 Status: Offline

What does that mean? Last time I went through Europe, the gas prices were almost 3 to 4 times what we were paying here in the US....what are they now?

checksixx wrote:

What does that mean? Last time I went through Europe, the gas prices were almost 3 to 4 times what we were paying here in the US....what are they now?

That means our prices were already that much higher that it has "just" doubled for us, while your were much more lower but has increased more. We still pay much more. A litre of gas is around 2 $ now here in Europe that equals >7.5 $ per gallon!

Enthusiast Joined: Oct 27, 2004 Posts: 44

I wasn't speaking of the gas prices but the price of an oil barrel. Since the oil market uses dollars as the currency the value of dollar is directly affecting the oil price.

I'm actually quite bad at putting this to words in here so I'll try to illustrate it with an example.

Year 2003: Oil barrel $30, $/€=1.1 making the oil barrel cost 27 euros.
2008: Oil barrel $100, $/€=1.55 making the oil barrel cost 64 euros.

€27/€64 = 2.3
$30/$100 = 3.3

Can't say that I really know what I'm talking about, so if my comment is totally wrong, feel free to correct me Smile

checksixx wrote:

What does that mean? Last time I went through Europe, the gas prices were almost 3 to 4 times what we were paying here in the US....what are they now?

Its all tax really especially in the UK. If the oil prices go up our supertax on petrol goes up, it really needs to be capped. This current government seem to have the view that we just drive around in our cars to pollute the world. In the UK at the moment I know my nearest petrol station is charging £1.08 per litre which is £4.08 per US gallon. So if you were to come over to the UK you'd be paying $8 per gallon, a joke right? A few years back Haulage companies organised blockades of ports with their lorries in protest to great effect, it really brought the country to a stand still. Yet the government still didn't give us a break. Lol sorry went on a rant there.

checksixx wrote:

bluewolf20 wrote:

What makes this worse is that both Chavez and Ahmadinejad sabre rattle every couple of weeks to force the oil price up. They both know they could not survive a conflict with the US but the underlying tactic is to damage the US by high oil prices and get rich in the process. With the US exporting $400 billion for oil each year it is working which will be a greater threat to the F-22 than any other aircraft.

The real crime is right here at home...we get VERY little oil from the Arabian area and little oil from Chavez.

Checksixx, of course: Saudi Arabia and Venuzeula are 2nd and 4th biggest import sources of oil. In relative terms today, it would be a catastrophic blow for US to lose that, just as it would be for them to lose it.

Hence the biggest issue for the US over the past 5 years at least: Energy policy/security.

As far as long-term US plans go, I would argue that the main crime domestically is that we still do not have a National Strategic plan to drastically reduce dependence on oil (whether domestically or foreign produced).

To simply say we can increase 2-3 million net bbl/day production over the next 10 yrs is not a national Energy policy. It's playing Russian roulette, sorry.

And only a mobilized national transformation will correct the 'crime.'

Newbie Joined: Mar 13, 2008 Posts: 18 Status: Offline

The US would love to rid of foreign reliance on oil and even though large part of imported oil into the US comes from Canada the price is controlled by the Arabs. A technology that works and the Chinese have adopted in coal to oil conversion. The US with 27% of the worlds coal and huge oil shale reserves nothing would make Americans happy than to tell the Arabs where to go. Using US resources would get US workers jobs and improve the national standards of living.

Energy independence would achieve a greater security than 1000 F-22's could achieve. Then with the money savings you could get a 1000 F-22's giving both a numerical and quality superiority to the USAF.

Without energy independence the US is liable to get dragged into every costly conflict involving a third world despot with energy reserves.

The F-22 might be the best fighter in the world but I think the Typhoon acheieves a better balance cost and capability in air to air combat. It is able to meet any threat posed by Russian fighters and also being produced in sufficiently large numbers.

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 20, 2005 Posts: 1035 Status: Offline

geogen wrote:

Checksixx, of course: Saudi Arabia and Venuzeula are 2nd and 4th biggest import sources of oil. In relative terms today, it would be a catastrophic blow for US to lose that, just as it would be for them to lose it.

It actually varies and if we would just use our national reserve for say 30 days, we'd bring the oil cartel to their knee's.

Country Jan-08 Dec-07 YTD 2008 Jan-07 YTD 2007

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CANADA 1,944 1,784 1,944 1,856 1,856
SAUDI ARABIA 1,479 1,675 1,479 1,559 1,559
MEXICO 1,198 1,234 1,198 1,435 1,435
NIGERIA 1,163 1,210 1,163 1,106 1,106
VENEZUELA 1,135 1,246 1,135 955 955
ANGOLA 566 439 566 553 553
IRAQ 543 378 543 531 531
ALGERIA 366 348 366 548 548
ECUADOR 247 195 247 269 269
KUWAIT 239 158 239 172 172
COLOMBIA 171 113 171 137 137
BRAZIL 169 171 169 204 204
CHAD 117 92 117 70 70
CONGO 91 31 91 53 53
UNITED KINGDOM 85 93 85 61 61

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 20, 2005 Posts: 1035 Status: Offline

bluewolf20 wrote:

The US would love to rid of foreign reliance on oil and even though large part of imported oil into the US comes from Canada the price is controlled by the Arabs.

Wrong, the per barrel price is controlled by OPEC.

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