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Comparison among F-22A, Su-35, EF-2000, and RAFALE C

1. Normal take-off：
* F-22A: 27,200 kg
* Su-35: 25,300 kg
* EF-2K: 17,000 kg
* Rafale: 15,000 kg

2. MTOW：
* F-22A: 28,120 kg
* Su-35: 34,500 kg
* EF-2K: 23,500 kg
* Rafale: 24,500 kg

3. Internal Fuel：
* F-22A: 9,330 kg
* Su-35: 11,500 kg
* EF-2K: 5,000 kg
* Rafale: 4,750 kg

4. Maximal Payload：
* F-22A: unknown
* Su-35: 8,000 kg
* EF-2K: 7,500 kg+
* Rafale: 9,500 kg

5. Maximal Speed, 11,000 m：
* F-22A: 2.00 Mach+ (2.25 ~ 2.42 Mach)
* Su-35: 2.25 Mach
* EF-2K: 2.00 Mach+ (2.25 Mach)
* Rafale: 1.80 Mach+ (2.00 Mach)

6. Maximal speed, 200 m：
* F-22A: 800 kts
* Su-35: 1,400 km/hr
* EF-2K: 1.14 Mach
* Rafale: 750 kts

7. Climb rate：
* F-22A: 350 m/sec, sea-level
* Su-35: 280 m/sec+, 1,000 m
* EF-2K: 315 m/sec+, sea-level
* Rafale: 305 m/sec+, sea-level

8. Operational Altitude：
* F-22A: 70,000 fts
* Su-35: 59,000 fts
* EF-2K: 65,000 fts
* Rafale: 55,000 fts

9. Ferry range：
* F-22A: 3,500 km (Internal Fuel)
* Su-35: 4,500 km (Internal Fuel + 2000 L tanks*2)
* EF-2K: 2,600 km (Internal Fuel)
* Rafale: > 2,100 km (Internal Fuel)

10. Acceleration：

* F-22A: unknown.

* Su-35: 13.8 secs from 600 km/hr to 1,100 km/hr, and 8 secs from 1,100 km/hr to 1,300 km/hr（with 50% internal fuel, standard A-A configuration, and height of 1,000 m）.

* EF-2K: less than 20 seconds from 200 kts to Mach 0.9 (Twin-seaters with one 1,000 L tank and two ASRAAM, altitude unknown).

* Rafale: around 20 seconds from 300 km/hr to 1,000 km/hr at low altitude.

11. Normal upper G-limit：
* F-22A: +9.5G
* Su-35: +9.0G
* EF-2K: +9.0G
* Rafale: +9.0G

12. T/W ratio of normal take-off（AB / Max. Mil.）：
* F-22A: 1.17 ~ 1.30 / 0.85 ~ 0.87
* Su-35: 1.10 ~ 1.15 / 0.69 ~ 0.70
* EF-2K: 1.08 ~ 1.14 / 0.72 ~ 0.83
* Rafale: 1.02 ~ 1.03 / 0.68 ~ 0.69

13. Take-off with standard A-A configuration：
* F-22A: 244 m
* Su-35: 400 to 450 m
* EF-2K: 228 ~ 275 m（Emergency take-off）to 457 m（Normal take-off）.
* Rafale: 400 m

14. Landing：
* F-22A: unknown.
* Su-35: 650 m（with the help of braking and parachute）
* EF-2K: 500 to 700 m
* Rafale: 400 m（with the help of braking only）

15. Radar's range：

* F-22A: Tracking target of RCS = 1 m2 at the range of 200 km away --> Detecting target of RCS = 3m2 at the range of 375 to 440 km away theoretically --> 329 ~ 386.

* Su-35: Detecting target of RCS = 3m2 at the range of 350 to 400 km away --> 307 ~ 351.

* EF-2K: Tracking target of RCS = 5 m2 at the range of 160 ~ 185 km away --> Detecting target of RCS = 3m2 at the range of 200 to 272 km away theoretically --> 175 ~ 239.

* Rafale: Detecting target of RCS = 5 m2 at the range of 130 ~ 148 km away --> Detecting target of RCS = 3m2 at the range of 114 to 130 km away theoretically --> 100 ~ 114.

16. Maximal horizontal scanning angle of Radar：
* F-22A: +/- 60 degrees
* Su-35: +/-120 degrees
* EF-2K: +/- 70 degrees
* Rafale: +/- 60 degrees

17. Capability of multiple target engagement：
* F-22A: Tracking 100 and engaging 6+.
* Su-35: Tracking 30 and engaging 8.
* EF-2K: Tracking 20+ and engagine 6 to 8.
* Rafale: Tracking 40 and engaging 4 to 6.

18. Frontal minimal RCS / Ratio of RCS / Ratio of range being detected:
* F-22A: 0.00015 ~ 0.0006 m2 --> 1 ~ 4 --> 1.00 ~ 1.41
* Su-35: 1.0 ~ 3.0 m2 --> 6666 ~ 20000 --> 9.03 ~ 11.89
* EF-2K: 0.1 ~ 0.5 m2 --> 666 ~ 3333 --> 5.08 ~ 7.60
* Rafale: 0.1 ~ 0.2 m2 --> 666 ~ 1332 --> 5.08 ~ 6.04

19. Su-35 v.s other western fighters:

* Theoretically, F-22A shall be able to detect / track Su-35 at the range of 285 to 440 km / 200 to 308 km away in head to head engagement.
* Theoretically, Su-35 shall be able to detect / track F-22A at the range of 29 to 48 km / 17 to 34 km away in head to head engagement.

* Theoretically, EF-2K shall be able to detect / track Su-35 at the range of 153 to 272 km / 107 to 163 km away in head to head engagement.
* Theoretically, Su-35 shall be able to detect / track EF-2K at the range of 150 to 256 km / 90 to 180 km away in head to head engagement.

* Theoretically, Rafale shall be able to detect / track Su-35 at the range of 87 to 130 km / 52 to 91 km away in head to head engagement.
* Theoretically, Su-35 shall be able to detect / track Rafale at the range of 150 to 203 km / 90 to 142 km away in head to head engagement.

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http://www.knaapo.ru/media/News/maks2007/35_eng.zip

Su-35BM:

A、Dimension：

1. Wing-span：15.3 m

2. Length：21.9 m

3. Height：5.9 m

4. Weight of normal take-off：25,300 kg（with two BVRAAM and two WVRAAM）

5. MTOW：34,500 kg

6. Internal Fuel：11,500 kg

7. Maximal weapon payload：8,000 kg

8. Numbers of Pylon：12

B、Flight-Performance：

1. Maximal speed at 11,000 m：2.25 Mach

2. Maximal speed at 200 m：1,400 km

3. Climbing rate at 1,000 m：> 280 m/sec

4. Operational height：18,000 m

5. Combat range with internal fuel only：3,600 km（Economic cruising at high altitude）～ 1,580 km（0.7 Mach at sea-level）

6. Ferry range with two 2,000 L tanks：4,500 km

7. Acceleration：
13.8 secs from 600 km/hr to 1,100 km/hr, and 8 secs from 1,100 km/hr to 1,300 km/hr（With 50% internal fuel and standard air-combat configuration at the altitude of 1,000 m).

8. Normal upper G-limit：+9G

9. Take-off：400 to 450 m（Standard air-combat configuration with A/B）

10. Landing：650 m（Standard landing configuration with break and parachute）

C、Engine：117C Turbofan*2 + 3D TVC

1. Maximal military thrust：8,800 kg*2

2. Maximal A/B thrust：14,000 kg*2（Combat mode）

3. Maximal A/B thrust：14,500 kg*2（Special mode）

D、IRBIS-E PESA + mechanical scanning motor radar：

1. Detective Range：350 to 400 km for RCS = 3 m2 fighter.

2. Detective Range：400 km for RCS = 50,000 m2 ship.

3. Maximal horizontal scanning angles：+/-120 degrees（Much more than any western fighters nowadays）.

4. Maximal horizontal targeting angles for HMS：+/-60 degrees.

5. Multiple targets engaging capability：Tracking 30 and Engaging 8（Air to Air）；Tracking 4 and Engaging 2（Air to Ground）.

E、OLS IRST：

1. Detective range, air to air：50 km（Heading）to 90 km（Tail-chasing）.

2. Multiple targets tracking capability：4 targets.

3. (Laser) Range measurement：20 km（Air to air）to 30 km（Air to Ground）.

F、Weapons：

1. Air-to-Air：up to 14 RVV-AEs and R-73Es combination, or up to 5 KS-172s.

2. Air-to-Surface：from 1 Kh-41 to 6 Kh-29TE (L)s or Kh-31P (A)s.

3. Bombering：up to 32 iron bombs of 250 kg class.

Toan I have always admired your thoroughness when you put these things together. I find they are full of lots of information. For me it would be much more useful if you could clearly cite the sources that you get your information from. For instance I am especially interested in the RCS numbers you give but I don't see where you got that information from. Could you please cite your sources a bit clearer in the future.

Thanks.

That is a little weird, the Raptor can supposedly track 100 objects yet only fire on about 6? And both the take off and MTOW seem too low for the F-22... Otherwise great info.

For the frontal minimal RCS of Raptor:

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairf ... 51125.aspx

November 25, 2005: The U.S. Air Force, in it's effort to get money to build more F-22s, has revealed just how“stealthy”the F-22 is. It's (F-22) RCS (Radar Cross Section) is the equivalent, for a radar, to a metal marble. The less stealthy (and much cheaper) F-35, is equal to a metal golf ball. The F-35 stealthiness is a bit better than the B-2 bomber, which, in turn, was twice as good as that on the even older F-117.

According to Google:

The area of cross section of a marble: 0.00015 (standard marble) ~ 0.0006 m2 (very big one).

The area of cross section of a golf ball: 0.0012 ~ 0.0015 m2.

PhillyGuy wrote:

That is a little weird, the Raptor can supposedly track 100 objects yet only fire on about 6? And both the take off and MTOW seem too low for the F-22... Otherwise great info.

A:

1. It's "6+" = "more than 6" --> six is the number of AIM-120 that F-22 can carry in A-A configuration right now.

2. A Raptor pilot said that the MTOW of Raptor today is around 62,000 Ib. Of course, it shall be increased if USAF decide to develop the configuration of "Strike Raptor" in the future.

That MTOW still seems very low, I have seen figures quoted form other pilots that indicate mid 60's is the typical A2A configuration...

I think that MTOW is relative low because the two formal combat configurations that F-22A has right now are both relatively light weight.

Air to Air configuration: AIM-120C6*6 + AIM-9M*2 --> Around 1,125 kg in weight.

Air to Ground configuration: JDAM (1,000 Ib)*2 + AIM-120C6*2 + AIM-9M*2 --> Around 1,400 kg in weight

Correct me if I'm wrong but Maximum-TOW has nothing to do with the weapons load, it is the structural limit built into the airframe.

According my information:
F-22 NTOW = 28636 kg
MTOW = 36500 kg
internal fuel = 9386 kg
payload = >10000 kg (not with full internal fuel)

RBE2: Engagement of up to 8 targets but with support for only 4 missiles.

BTW Toan why do you use different values for speed at S/L

F-22 : 800 kts/1482 kph (M 1.22)
Su-35: 756 kts/1400 kph (M 1.15)
Rafale/Typhoon: 750 kts/1390 kph (M 1.14)

Senior member Joined: Jul 01, 2007 Posts: 368

You guys have too much time on your hands. Smile

Newbie Joined: Jun 15, 2007 Posts: 12 Status: Offline

Hello

I just started to wonder about F-22s APG-77 radar capabilities while browsing topics on forum. Here:
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopi ... rt-30.html
we can read that:

toan wrote:

About the effective detection range of AN/APG-77 according to AW&ST:

AW&ST 2000/03/17, 120 mile (192 km) at "Stealthy mode".
AW&ST 2000/03/17, 140 to 145 mile (260 to 270 km) at "Non-stealthy mode".
AW&ST 2000/03/17, radar image with 30 cm-class resolution for the target 100 miles (160 km) away.
AW&ST 2000/03/17, TWS 100 targets at the same time.

According to the reports of Mr.Billsweetman a few years ago, F/A-22 can detect the target of 400~460 km away with the help of ALQ-94 EWs. And the effective detection range of AN/APG-77 is about 185~230 km, which has some sacrifice because of energy / emission controlling for stealthy issue.

I have one question: does "Stealthy mode" means that radar has LPI ability ( it forms many very weak but very precise beams at different frequencies and each pulse has a different power level) ? Am I right ?

If the answer is "yes" so how does "non-stealthy mode" works ? - the same way like PESA radars ?

On this, great site:
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Raptor.html
we can see this chart:
http://www.ausairpower.net/FA-22A-Radar-2005-APA.png which shows us detection range of US radars. If I've calculated correctly APG-77 could detect target of RCS 10 m^2 at range approximately 190 nm (350 km) - my question is: in which mode: stealthy/non-stealthy/passive/active ?? How do you think ?

Here:
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Flanker.html we can find another chart:
http://www.ausairpower.net/Irbis-BARS.png giving a view of Russian radar's detection range.

Look at the Irbis E radar ...

Regards

I would believe a serious answer to your questions would be in the sphere of "Loose lips sink ships"...

No hard feelings, just don't be disappointed if someone drops it and starts the "N" word Razz

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 20, 2005 Posts: 1035 Status: Offline

toan wrote:

8. Operational Altitude：
* F-22A: 70,000 fts
* Su-35: 59,000 fts
* EF-2K: 65,000 fts
* Rafale: 55,000 fts

Some of those are a bit off. 60K is the operational limit for the USAF without a pressure suit. Going much above that would be very risky without it and you could never get me to believe that the Eurofighter is capable of 'operating' at or above 60K.

Checksixx:

Typhoon operational ceiling is 60k ft not 65; that is the official figure. The only place I can find claiming 65 is wikipedia.

Also his F-22 figures, most sources on t'internet point to 60k-65k not 70k.

Andy

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