Forum: Air Force Life

af.mil wrote:

SERE training to be required for all Airmen

8/10/2007 - WASHINGTON (AFPN) -- Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. T. Michael Moseley met Aug. 10 at the Pentagon with several Air Force leaders to discuss the road ahead for survival, evasion, resistance and escape training.

Air Force leaders plan to broaden the focus of SERE training for all Airmen due to the threat of isolation and capture for Airmen supporting the war on terrorism.

"As we've seen recently, the capture of military personnel has the potential of exploding into a larger strategic event with global impacts," General Moseley said. "Today's battlefields are non-linear and non-contiguous; their shape and venue change constantly. I worry we've not prepared our Airmen for the world we're operating in."

In today's ever-changing world, Airmen increasingly find themselves in a non-traditional environment outside the wire. SERE training teaches Airmen principles, techniques and skills to survive in any environment, avoid capture, resist and escape if captured.

SERE training is currently conducted on three levels. All Airmen receive entry-level, or A-level, training. B-level is provided to those with a moderate risk of capture and C-level is reserved for those with a high risk of capture. B- and C-level training is provided primarily to aircrew members, those traditionally in higher risk duties.

Col. Bill Andrews, a guest speaker at the summit, was an F-16 Fighting Falcon pilot flying his 35th mission in the final stages of Operation Desert Storm when he was shot down, captured and spent time as a POW.

"An Airman captured faces grave moral and physical challenges," Colonel Andrews said. "My training gave me a gut understanding that I was still at war and not in a time-out. My SERE training at the Air Force Academy, 14 years earlier, was clear as a bell, giving me the confidence to not break in the face of the enemy."

In addition to aircrews, advanced SERE training currently is provided to battlefield Airmen, those with the responsibility for combat control, pararescue, tactical air control and combat weather.

"This is a great day. For the first time in history, we're talking about preparing all Airmen in the total force to deal with the increasing threat of isolation and capture," said Chief Master Sergeant John Myers, SERE career field manager.

"With the issues we've addressed at this summit, we've taken a great step forward in facing this ultimate challenge that confronts our Airmen who fall into enemy hands," Colonel Andrews added.

General Moseley's new initiative will be to incorporate SERE training throughout the Air Force.

"We need to inject these skills across the entire force," General Moseley said. "Whether deployed for combat operations, stationed overseas or even in the continental United States, there are persistent threats to all Airmen. We must ensure every Airman is properly trained to deal with these threats. From the moment Airmen report for initial training until they separate or retire, we must train them to ensure they return with honor."

Source: http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123064197

Now, my two cents: This is going to cause two very drastic things to happen in the Air Force.

1) SERE training was the best training I have seen in my seven years in the Air Force, hands down. The instructors absolutely have their $hit together, and the program is probably the most realistic training the AF has going. If we try and funnel everyone through it, the quality of training is going to take a horrible nose dive, and it'll turn into the same bull$hit, power-point driven feel-good "let's not upset anyone" garbage that is so pervasive in most other AF training programs.

2) SERE was without a doubt the most demanding course that I've been through, physically and mentally. The AF, if this move goes through, is going to lose a number of people through injuries (real and faked, we all know those kind of people are out there), and Mental Health will be swamped with all the wannabe-warriors who joined just to get some college--but don't know how to handle themselves when put in a genuinly stressfull situation.

I really hope, for the sake of all involved, that the AF doesn't go through with this idea.

F-16.net Sponsor

WoW, my youngest son Richard (volunteered for this recently) he is just waiting to hear if his cross training is approved at Air Force level (it has been approved at the base level now) to see when his training date is reporting to Washington (McChord AFB) for official training, he is loving the idea of this training - so I'm I actually.

He was in PJ training four years ago, blew out his knee in a "jump", medically disqualified and was forced cross trained into CE (was not happy about it but learned a lot, went to Iraq twice, got back two months ago, twp, one year assignments). he told me he missed feeling good about himself at the end of the day, he did not mind this work and wanted something better.

The chance for SERE came up, medically he re-qualified (so far good to go) just sewed on Staff Sgt at fours years in exactly, completed ALS (GD) so I think, this could a positive changing point for him in the USAF. I hope it all works out as he would like, I feel he earned it and the idea of this type of training is hard to place a dollar amount on - helps the USAF and my kid so I say Go - Evade and Survive to Fight Another day!

I wish my son and any other person considering this career field all the best, the climate of the world has evolved, ever changing, we need to be ready if this is where that readiness begins, then I am all for it.

He's going as an instructor? Good for him!!! Those guys go through one hell of a course to do what they do. The angle I was talking about, was that the AF is wanting to send everyone...including the "hefty" guy at finance who can't handle his favorite pen being misplaced...through the course (not to be an instructor, but as a student). Granted, we're all at risk of being on the front lines now, but I just don't feel that the regular AF type needs to go through the course.

They're bringing back elements of SERE training at the Academy too. I'm thinking of trying to work it next summer (the new sophomores will be the ones actually going through it) because every grad I've talked to that's been through it said how benifical it was to them, whether they were going to be pilots or not. Some of my friends here actually worked the trial one that they had back in July and said how great it was. I was on leave when they did it otherwise I would have volunteered to do it.

Not sure this is necessary training for everyone in the AF. I did SERE-C and it was great training, but I did it as a pilot in the Army, I had no desire or need to do it working Vipers in the Big Blue, just my thought's.

Pete

Yes, he has applied to be an Instructor, he is all pumped up over it, I hope he succeeds, I know he would be great at it too, at 22 years old..I love his motivation.

My youngest son (a few photos) with my son in law in Baghdad a few months ago)....both home now, safe and sound.

Later guys....

Quote:

"As we've seen recently, the capture of military personnel has the potential of exploding into a larger strategic event with global impacts," General Moseley said. "Today's battlefields are non-linear and non-contiguous; their shape and venue change constantly. I worry we've not prepared our Airmen for the world we're operating in."

Simple solution ... train,issue, and incorporate one of these in the AOR

http://www.glock.com/

A must have for SERE training Twisted Evil

I thought that some of the content of the program was classified? Maybe that has changed?

If more and more people have it that could mean compromise to air crew and other pointy tip of the spear people. And yes I know today even SF and LRS are now doing ground involvement.

My take on it is that the M.E. bad guy doesn't use too much reason with captured people. Expecting a M.E. capture event to be survivable depends more on luck than anything else.

Don't know. That is my two cents on it.

The other part is the P.C. B.S. so common in some of today's military. If an MTI can't yell at a recruit in basic and risk insulting them Laughing

( i.e. Full Metal Jacket ( the lite version )... How the hell is a recruit going to survive the training above?

Save some money and just be tougher in basic training. Let the MTI's turn it up a few notches to see who is suitable and who isn't. And while the USAF was kinda light on basic training, when I went through {1980}( uh oh.... here we go Laughing

) My flight started out with 49 and graduated 26 Laughing

. The T.I. made everything very uncomfortable. The sister flight across the all was hated. Their T.I.s went easy ( their flight was bigger at graduation too ).

What ever the boss says I guess. Just as long as it doesn't water down PC style and the instructors can operate like they normally do.

Re: the F-16 POW above. I will have to look him up as I don't know. I do know that Maj (Tico) Tice had the hell beat out of him. So I don't know how tough you can be if they start beating on you hard. How many physical beatings do the SERE instructors dish out? Rolling Eyes

Also, one of the reasons I do not like our women in combat arms is that they suffer a lot worse than a man does in POW conditions. Unless we are defending our home turf, I hold in contempt, the leadership which puts women at risk where that is a possibility.

VarkVet wrote:

Simple solution ... train,issue, and incorporate one of these in the AOR

http://www.glock.com/

A must have for SERE training Twisted Evil

Uhhh with the frame twist issue and the extreme temperatures in the AOR this would probably be the worst weapon to issue there. No glocks for me until they fix the issue...they refuse to acknowledge it.

That is great that your son is going in to be a SERE instructor, Meathook. I had a friend that was up at Spokane until a few years ago, he crossed trained as a 1N0 and is now at Hill. I did the course about 4 years ago as a load on the Herc and I gotta say that training is intense, and is not for everyone. It is going to cost alot of money to send everyone through that course, and to be completely honest with you, the Air Force can not afford it. If we are cutting our flying hours by as much as 13% this year, we do not need to be sending service personnel to SV-80.

On another note, I will be going through the SERE instructor course as well this next fiscal year sometime. I am getting qualified to teach HRC refresher. I will still have my primary AFSC, but now I can refresh our aircrews before they deploy and in the desert, instead of having someone from another unit do it. I don't know if other units are doing this or not, but as far as I know they are going to make someone from every unit (guard and reserve as well) be qualified to instruct SERE training for refresher courses and what not.

Maybe you will get to meet him, that would be cool. Good on ya!

A subject like this for cost, availability of training and the overall "need" to train the whole USAF is going to stir much controversy. I do know that folks going into harms way that definitely could be captured or left to survive on their own for some period of time could use this training. There is both good and bad in the concept but yes - funding and the time available to possibly train all is a major issue for consideration.

I think and feel only specified AFSC's that deploy (or fly) within an area of operation should be given some level of training, I think your primary job should dictate the amount of training in survival that you receive where the likelihood of capture is possible based on that job.

At some level we need training on how to handle ourselves, it cant hurt but time will tell as to who gets the concentrated training (a portion of it) or all out full regimented training for long term survival (like downed aircrews and flying airmen, security forces and folks possible assigned to support such functions as escort (armed). Many avenues to be considered for sure, I hope the USAF finds a way to protect and train it folks accordingly. As far as women flying or captured, they made the choice and yes, they could and have been used as political tools for the folks that managed to capture them but I am sure they feel as patriotic about serving and want to take the risks as any man serving, the Israelis do it all the time and their force is something to be reckoned with (hard core great fighting force). As much as I would not want my daughter captured (god forbid) I salute her pride in wanting to get that job done as much or more then any man.

Freedom isn't Free without blood and much risk, sorry but if they want it, they got it but I can see the point made about women in combat, it has been debated much but they are there, we have to deal with it as if they were just another tool or resource for our commanders to use as required - hard line but I believe it.

I am against every Tom, Dick, and Harry out there receiving the training, because honestly, not every Tom, Dick, and Harry needs it. If everyone had to do it, then they would have to water down the training. It's designed to be mentally and physically challenging for a reason. Some people can't handle it, and would b*tch to SARC or MEO the first time they were placed in a stressful scenario. The AF doesn't have the time or the money to handle that many people. Plus, there are too many out there who would be immature about the training they would receive. How many stupid @$$es could we think of that would go straight from graduation to a downtown Spokane bar, and try and pick up some co-ed from Gonzaga with a line like, "Hey, wanna see what I learned in the POW camp?" Leave the training for aircrew, SpecOps, Intel, and ACLS, I say.

TC wrote:

I am against every Tom, Dick, and Harry out there receiving the training, because honestly, not every Tom, Dick, and Harry needs it. If everyone had to do it, then they would have to water down the training. It's designed to be mentally and physically challenging for a reason. Some people can't handle it, and would b*tch to SARC or MEO the first time they were placed in a stressful scenario. The AF doesn't have the time or the money to handle that many people. Plus, there are too many out there who would be immature about the training they would receive. How many stupid @$$es could we think of that would go straight from graduation to a downtown Spokane bar, and try and pick up some co-ed from Gonzaga with a line like, "Hey, wanna see what I learned in the POW camp?" Leave the training for aircrew, SpecOps, Intel, and ACLS, I say.

Ya! as if aircrew dont run downtown and try picking up the ladies with any "do you know what I do?" lines. Rolling Eyes

But i'm with you..i dont see how any of these folks can pass.

Last edited by Elliboom on Aug 28, 2007 - 03:53 PM; edited 1 time in total

edited by myself.

Elli, Bud, litlle to much info dont ya think.

Forum: Air Force Life

SERE training for the whole Air Force