Forum: Scale Models - F-16, F-35, F/A-22, F-2

Well I just got this in the mail:

Is there anything I need to know? any issues? before I start to build the kit. I just got the kit so I haven't checked colors or anything yet. I won't start this yet either course I still have my 1/48 kit to finish first.

Azgaron

F-16.net Sponsor

Yea
Forget the MER rack on the wing stations, looks good on the box art but never in real life.

Oh and the AIM 7's on stations 2 and 8, forget that too.

I used my AIM 7's as a starting point to convert into AIM 120's and mounted them on sta. 1 and 9.

Which block are your trying to build?

Well, I don't think I'll omit anything just because it doesn't look as good as on the box art. Is there anything that needs to be fixed with the MER rack and AIM 7? Please explain!
If there is something that needs correcting to make the kit look more correct, then I need to know what needs to be done and preferably how. I'm no F-16 expert or pro builder, I'm grateful for all help. I know there are AM parts, but I generally can't afford such things so I'll have try and do things myself if possible.

Unless I get new decals, there are only two options in the kit. 512th TFS, Ramstein AFB, 1987 and 16th Air Force Torrejon AB, Spain, 1988. I haven't decided which one, and don't know which block.

Azgaron

Ditto what ACMI guy said, though if you make AIM-120s out of the AIM-7s, you're going to need LAU-129 launchers, which are not included.

I think both the kit subjects are early block 30s with the NSI (Small mouth intake), but TJ jet could be a later block 30 with the Big mouth. If so, then the kit built OOTB will be wrong. You’ll have to research the SN numbers to be sure. For Block 30, SN 86-0262 is the beginning of the MCID (Big Mouth) intake application.

The NSI kit intake is not really that correct in profile, but shouldn't be that noticeable, at least not as bad as the Academy intake is. Note that Revell intake assembly fit is quite sloppy and most of the detail gets lost during clean up. Also, the inside seam is terrible, so an intake plug or cover is recommended.

If I recall correctly, the Revell F-16C has a good GE nozzle, but still retains the Pratt exhaust duct/turbine.

The cockpit is quite disappointing. It's not only poorly detailed, but not even a C model layout. The closed canopy will help hide the weak cockpit, but it lacks the proper "bubble cross section" and the aft hinge tabs.

Overall, it’s quite a dated kit of the F-16 and requires a lot of clean up. The kit builds uo into and ok F-16. If you had any after market sets in the scale, it would be better served in the Hasegawa kit.

Mike V

Thanks for your answer! Although I'm almost starting to regret I asked Smile

Maybe I asked for more than I can handle.
Sounds like I have to buy or (if possible) make a lot of parts. I don't understand what's wrong with the AIM-7? Is there any pic somewhere that I compare the parts with. And why should I make AIM-120s instead? Can't I just correct the AIM-7s?

As I understand it the serial numbers are 85-412A and 87-337A. Does that mean that one is NSI and the other MCID?

It looks like most of the detail consist of decals. Haven't checked the looks of the parts yet.

I don't have any AM parts, and I'm not sure I'll get any. Depends on the price. I got this kit fairly cheap (I think) on auction, and I'm still learning both about the Viper and about building, so bear with me if I'm asking stupid questions.

Azgaron

85-1412 is a Block 30 F-16C, NSI/GE
87-0337 is a Block 30J F-16C, MCID/GE

Note that the decal for the main instrument panel is for an early F-16A (not C)

You can read more about all the 1:32 Revell kits here

Azgaron wrote:

I don't understand what's wrong with the AIM-7? Is there any pic somewhere that I compare the parts with. And why should I make AIM-120s instead? Can't I just correct the AIM-7s?Azgaron

The F-16C cannot fire/shoot AIM-7s. Only the F-16ADF had/has that ability.

Jake

Habu2: Then I'm stuck with the small mouth unless I can get a big mouth intake. Seems a bit strange to throw out a kit where you actually can't build the included versions correctly.
It seems like I'm stuck with an incorrect instrument panel too, unless I get a correct PE set or something.

JakeMelampy: Thanks! I see, then I'll have try and convert them. What is the difference between the existing launchers and the LAU-129 launchers? Is that hard to fix?

Azgaron

Yes, you're stuck with the Small mouth intake. Cutting Edge makes an MCID, but it's is made for the Hasgeawa kit and really would be a hell of a lot to graft into the Revell kit. Also, CE Intake is expensive ( as much as the Revell kit, if not more), and would be doing it an injustice putting on the Revell F-16.

The main problem is that no after market sets (PE or resin) are made for the Revell F-16. Even if you had say some aftermarket PE or resin cockpit sets intended for the Hasegawa kit, as again it would be better used on Hasegawa's F-16 than the Revell kit.

You may want to ask around the other modeling forums for spare 32nd Hasegawa F-16C cockpits, which may be left overs from using a Black Box repalcement. Then again, with no camopy position option, would it really be all that noticable?

The LAU-129 launchers are larger (both in length and thickness) than the standard 210 (AIM-9) launchers. You really can't convert the 210 into a LAU-129 rail. Tamiya has the only true LAU-129 rail in 32nd and is quite nice.

To build a better subject that you're after, the best bet is to pick up the Hasegawa kit, since they are plentiful and quite cheap (EBAY wise) since the release of Tamiya's excellant Viper. The Revell decals are pretty nice, so you may want to use them on a kit worthy of their quality. Save the main wheel from the Revell it though, as they are more accurate the Hasegawa block 1-30 original wheels.

Mike V

Thanks!

Small mouth it is then Smile

I guess I save my money on PE too Smile

And use them on a better kit later.

Perhaps I can do that, but as you say, there's no real point with the canopy down.

I'll see if I can figure a way to solve the armament problem. Some good pics and perhaps a good drawing would be helpful. On the other hand as you already pointed out this isn't the best model around and not the end of the world if I don't have the proper launchers or missiles.

Maybe I'll get a Hasegawa kit later. Right now, this is what I think I'll do. I'll perhaps join a suitable GB at ARC for instance, and use this kit as a practice kit. I'll do my best to make look as good as I possibly can, and meanwhile I show my progress here.

Thanks for all your help guys!

Azgaron

Azgaron wrote:

I'll see if I can figure a way to solve the armament problem. Some good pics and perhaps a good drawing would be helpful.
Azgaron

http://www.reidairpublishing.com/RAP02.html

This should go a long way to helping out.

Jake

Thanks for the link! That looks like a very interesting book to have. I'll put it on my wish list.

Azgaron

Azgaron

I'm sending a picture of a scratch build AIM 120 and a my scratch built conversion from an AIM 7 (Revell 1/32) to a Python 4.

All you need to do is remove the fins, remove a mm or so from the body by sanding and then install the correct fins. I use card stock to make mine but you can adapt your AIM 7 fins if you like.
Note you need to trim down slightly more of the forward section to get the proper tapper in the front. (see the photo of the 120.)

AIM 7 specs Length 12 feet (3.64 meters)
Diameter 8 inches (0.20 meters)

AIM 120 specs Diameter 7 inches (17.78 centimeters)
Wingspan 20.7 inches (52.58 centimeters)

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/aim-120.htm

LAU 129's are easy, again go back to the card stock and convert the older launchers by squaring off the front and aft then tapper the nose cover.

http://www.f-16.net/index.php?name=PNph ... ic&p=20233

Now why remove the MER's, well they flight tested those early on but never used them, too much drag. Vipers like to keep it clean and mean and all those bombs make them slow and sluggish.

AIM 7's are carried only on Sta 3 and 7 with a special adapter pylon, very thin and pointed in front and deeper than the WWP. And yes only the ADF version carried that configuration.
I think I may have a picture or two I took back in the early 90's.

I agree with the others keep the small mouth and call it a different block, unless you want one specific unit portrayed with the proper block number.

Thanks for the excellent explanation and pics!

Excuse me but sometimes I'm not at home with all terms, card stock? Is that some kind of plastic sheets or something?

I guess that the pic a bit down on this page explains the station numbers correctly

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_armament_article9.html

The modifications doesn't seem to be that hard. I'll see how it turns out when it comes that far.

Yes, I'll go for the small mouth and the provided decals for 85-1412, block 30 if I understood it correctly.

Azgaron

Card stock is in reference to plastic sheet styrene, like those from Evergreen.

To add to the LAU-129 conversion from standard 210s, you will also have to thicken the launcher, since the LAU-129 is about a 1 -1/2" thicker than the 210 launchers. A simple way to do this is to laminate thin card stock to both sides of the 210 launcher, extending the length. Fill in the front voids and aft end then shape accordingly.

Also note that there is a 1" difference in diameter between the AIM-7 and AIM-120, though I don’t recall which one is larger diameter missile. In any case, it shouldn't be a big deal, even in this scale. You will also have to add the side strip to the AIM-120 as well.

Mike V

Forum: Scale Models - F-16, F-35, F/A-22, F-2

Revell 1/32 F-16C any issues?