Forum: F-16 Procedures

Having an ejection seat that doesnt work is a bit like driving a car without insurance. Will the car still drive? Certainly it will. Pity we cant predict when it will be needed. Since we cant then if its not perfect then its safety of flight and the jet doesnt go anywhere. BTW.....P-51's may not have had an ejection seat but every pilot flew with the equivalent.....a parachute!

F-16.net Sponsor

I was a pointyhead for 36 years in the USAF and ANG. I spent ten years in the ANG (weekend duty only--still Avionics as a Technician) as an Expediter and Pro Super. I was guilty of seeing the world from an avionics perspective until I became an expediter. Believe me, there is a helluva lot more going on than just APG, just Avionics, just Egress, Electrics, Engines, or anybody else. I had no idea what it took to fly a jet. Anyone who has never expedited or ProSup'ed has very little idea of what goes on on the flightline when taken in total.

I was on ER orders, and they considered giving the ProSupers all-aircraft red-X orders, but decided not to because we'd have had to go to Egress FTD and they didn't want to spend the money. I did get put on engine red-X orders for one day to fix one of our jets that had broken at Langley. When I signed off ERs I had the CC help me through it because I did it so seldom I never really learned the procedure and I was afraid I'd f*ck something up. Usually, the flight chiefs did the ERs.

By the way--I could count on two hands the crew chiefs I knew who stayed with their jets while we specialists were working on them. Most of 'em were elsewhere. So much for 21-101, I guess... Some CCs were excellent; most were pretty good; some were damn lousy. Just like any other AFSC!

Last edited by Bodizzle on Sep 23, 2007 - 06:55 AM; edited 1 time in total

akruse21 wrote:

DCC doesn't have to be a crew chief though. Just throwing that out there.

The DCC does have to be a crew chief. 21-101 used to say that it wasn't AFSC specific, but someone finally got it in their head to change it. Read page one where it lists the AFSC's required to be a DCC; they're all crew chief, whether it be tactical, heavy, or helicopter.

fireball wrote:

This is for egress...Why the hell is everything egress a red X? Every jet I look at on the flight line has never ever used it's egress system, it's purely an aircrew luxury! Let's be real how many will ever get used? P-51 pilots flew on a crate and heck the martin-baker ejection seat was at best a gamble.
Just having some fun but it makes ya think!!!!

00-20-1 my friend, that's why. Not supporting it, don't like it, but that's the way it is.

To be exact, its AFI 21-101 4.9.1

"4.9.1. Dedicated Crew Chief (DCC) Program. The objective of the DCC program is to directly assign a maintenance person to each aircraft to provide continuity/accuracy of aircraft forms, aircraft status,scheduled maintenance, and improve aircraft cosmetics. Personnel must have a minimum of 6 months experience on the MDS, be a staff sergeant or higher, and possess a 2A3X3A/B/J or 2A5X1/2 AFSC before selection as a DCC. The MXG/CC retains the authority to waive other aircraft maintenance AFSCs and time/rank requirements to be a DCC. The MXG/CC shall brief the WG/CC monthly on the DCC experience levels/grades and on any need to waive requirements. DCCs manage and supervise all maintenance on their aircraft. DCCs are selected on the basis of initiative, management and leadership ability, and technical knowledge. Each assigned aircraft must have an assigned DCC (optional for contractor and civil service maintenance functions as determined by the MAJCOM)."

When ever something happens the crew chief is the first one they point the finger at (its my jet im responcible...so they think). "last ones out the door friday night, better learn to love it".

Bodizzle wrote:

akruse21 wrote:

DCC doesn't have to be a crew chief though. Just throwing that out there.

The DCC does have to be a crew chief. 21-101 used to say that it wasn't AFSC specific, but someone finally got it in their head to change it. Read page one where it lists the AFSC's required to be a DCC; they're all crew chief, whether it be tactical, heavy, or helicopter.

You're wrong, It can and has been waivered before.

I was offered a jet to crew once at Misawa...I told them I would do it only if I could have "TSgt Joe Sambor - Avionics Specialist" on the canopy. They declined.

If they had accepted, it would have been a sign to everyone that they were so critically short on crew chiefs that they had to draft other specialties, and of course no one would ever admit that...they still won't admit today that they are critically short on crew chiefs.

Best Regards,

fireball wrote:

This is for egress...Why the hell is everything egress a red X? Every jet I look at on the flight line has never ever used it's egress system, it's purely an aircrew luxury! Let's be real how many will ever get used? P-51 pilots flew on a crate and heck the martin-baker ejection seat was at best a gamble.
Just having some fun but it makes ya think!!!!

Well, let's think about this one for a minute. The reason those jets are still on the flightline is because the egress systems haven't been used. Usually jets that the pilot ejects out of aren't going to parked on the ramp the next day, bright, shiny, and ready to go. It's not a question of how many ejection seats will ever actually be used, it's how many lives can be saved by having them. I don't think the pilot that ejected out of Aviano 529 last week will consider his ejection seat just a luxury item. I'm stationed at Aviano by the way. Pretty much everything Egress is a red x item because pretty much everything is a vital component to the system.

Quote:

Well, let's think about this one for a minute. The reason those jets are still on the flightline is because the egress systems haven't been used

Yes that is a reason, but its not the reason the jets come back every day. you can talk up your seat all you want, but how often is your system really used. how often is egress takin piss tests and being interogated when birds take the big sleep? good maintenance/inspections is what makes it safer/happen. just because an egress final or what ever maint is being preformed is an X, doesnt make a differance (most everything is really an X as far as the AF is concerned, egress aint special) a good motor pull or oil servicing is just as important as a 30 day. i dont see egress doing any Pr/Bpo's, mostly i see them going home early and playin basket ball........but thats just an observation.

JoeSambor wrote:

...they still won't admit today that they are critically short on crew chiefs.

I WISH THEY WOULD ADMIT IT.. SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT IT. IT IS GETTING RIDICULOUS. Evil or Very Mad

You are correct it isn't the reason they come back everyday. But it is the reason a pilot comes back to his or her family. As far as piss tests what in the hell are you smoking, when a jet goes down they piss test damn near everyone that worked on that jet. Then add in the pilot tried to eject but something happened. Which is what is always said when a pilot is unable to eject whether there was no time or it just wasn't in the cards.
I ask you how many times have you been piss tested, how many time has YOUR bird went down for the big sleep? I have had 5 seats ejected that I worked on and I have had 2 that did not "due to pilot error"
Only thing I am saying is that I am sick and tired of crew chiefs thinking they are all that, that they are the end all be all to that jet when all they are is glorified valet.

It takes more than just one crew chief to FLY, FIGHT, and Win.
get over yourselves
one team one fight

WILKOW330 wrote:

Quote:

Well, let's think about this one for a minute. The reason those jets are still on the flightline is because the egress systems haven't been used

Yes that is a reason, but its not the reason the jets come back every day. you can talk up your seat all you want, but how often is your system really used. how often is egress takin piss tests and being interogated when birds take the big sleep? good maintenance/inspections is what makes it safer/happen. just because an egress final or what ever maint is being preformed is an X, doesnt make a differance (most everything is really an X as far as the AF is concerned, egress aint special) a good motor pull or oil servicing is just as important as a 30 day. i dont see egress doing any Pr/Bpo's, mostly i see them going home early and playin basket ball........but thats just an observation.

if I've missed this already please correct me but egress checks the seat every 30 days crew chiefs IF they are doing their BPO/Pr correctly look at the seat and the rest of the cockpit everyday, the seat used to be some of the last workcards in the deck

malisguy wrote:

I am sick and tired of crew chiefs thinking they are all that, that they are the end all be all to that jet when all they are is glorified valet.

You're going a little overboard with this one malisguy... That is one hell of a generalization to make. Evil or Very Mad

Pointy heads and nose pickers going at it, now thats funny Poke

Face it guys without someone to pass gas nothing will fly Mr. Green

WILKOW330 wrote:

Quote:

Well, let's think about this one for a minute. The reason those jets are still on the flightline is because the egress systems haven't been used

Yes that is a reason, but its not the reason the jets come back every day. you can talk up your seat all you want, but how often is your system really used. how often is egress takin piss tests and being interogated when birds take the big sleep? good maintenance/inspections is what makes it safer/happen. just because an egress final or what ever maint is being preformed is an X, doesnt make a differance (most everything is really an X as far as the AF is concerned, egress aint special) a good motor pull or oil servicing is just as important as a 30 day. i dont see egress doing any Pr/Bpo's, mostly i see them going home early and playin basket ball........but thats just an observation.

Obviously you didn't read the quote I was answering. Seems to happen alot but that's just an observation. The guy that I quoted wrote that every jet he sees on the flightline hasn't used it's ejection system. My point was that this is obvious because it wouldn't be sitting on the ramp if it had. It'd be scattered over a half mile of debris. You're right, egress doesn't do the daily Pr/Bpo's. We do a 30 day to make sure that the people doing the dailys are actually doing there job and not just pencil whipping (another common observation). And I'm getting real tired of answer the stupid question of "seriously dude, how often does the ejection seat get used". That's like asking a marine to give up his bayonet because seriously dude how often are you going to use that (my ex-marine buddy added that point) You're right everything else that is done on the f***ing jet is just as f***ing important as a godd***ed 30 day. Good job on those Pr/Bpo's though. Let me know if you see any paint chipping. I'll be right out. Twisted Evil

Forum: F-16 Procedures

Attention all crew chiefs