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In a dogfight, which one would win?

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Elite 1K Joined: Aug 01, 2006 Posts: 1003 Status: Offline

In a dogfight, with today's SRAAM missiles, both are just as likely to get dead.

The F-35 pilot will have better situational awareness from his 360 degree IRST Optronics and HMD, as well as being harder to track by the opponent's avionics. A small agility and acceleration performance will go to the Typhoon. In the end, it'll be a 50/50 crap shoot.

The problem is that the Typhoon is probably already dead before it gets to a dogfight.

Enthusiast Joined: Jun 28, 2007 Posts: 26 Status: Offline

Why is the Typhoon dead?

It's avionics are just as advanced if not more so than anything the raptor or F-35 has to offer,im gonna assume your american here,correct me if i'm wrong about your nationality,but to the point, America is not the be all and end all, europe is more advanced in every single field of research (with exception to maybe stealth, hats off to ye on that one Salute

)

fada wrote:

it's avionics are just as advanced if not more so than anything the raptor or f-35 has to offer...

Good one, oh wait, he's serious... Shocked

As for the rest of the post, Pot meet Mr. Kettle...

with the exception of radar, F-22 has to be UPGRADED to the F-35s avionics level.

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 22, 2005 Posts: 1089 Status: Offline

fada wrote:

why is the typhoon dead?

Ever hear of stealth?

fada wrote:

it's avionics are just as advanced if not more so than anything the raptor or f-35 has to offer,im gonna assume your american here

And it's just as obvious you're European. Where's the Typhoon's AESA? Where's the Typhoon's ALR-94 equivalent? (Do you even know what that is and why it's so impressive?)

fada wrote:

correct me if i'm wrong about your nationality,but to the point, America is not the be all and end all, europe is more advanced in every single field of research(with exception to maybe stealth,hats off to ye on that one Salute

)

ROFL!

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 22, 2005 Posts: 1089 Status: Offline

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:

with the exception of radar, F-22 has to be UPGRADED to the F-35s avionics level.

Let's not forget the ALR-94 either.

Quote:

europe is more advanced in every single field of research(with exception to maybe stealth,hats off to ye on that one

What the hell are they brainwashing you with over there kid? I don;t have much time but just for starters if this where true how come Americans have won the majority of the Nobel prizes in Physics, Chemistry and Medicine these past three years?

It's not just stealth. While it's dominance is no longer as pronounced as it was 20 years ago, the technological lead in the US over the rest of the world in most fields is still very much measured in years.

For example, how is that AESA radar of Europe's doing? Oh, forgot, the first development model is just starting flight testing. Meanwhile the US has had airborne AESA radars for thirty years.

How is Airbus doing with those monolithic carbon fiber barrels for the A350 so it can compete with the 787. Oops, forgot, they do not know how to make them.

Engines, nope
Avionics, nope
Radar, nope.
Computers, nope.
IR suppression, nope.
Metals, nope.

Back to the subject. If you cannot track it, you cannot kill it. Stealth and AESA gives you an edge so vast that yes, compared to F-35, and Raptor, Tiffy is obsolete.

Quote:

with the exception of radar, F-22 has to be UPGRADED to the F-35s avionics level.

Care to elaborate why?

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 20, 2005 Posts: 1035 Status: Offline

fada wrote:

why is the typhoon dead?it's avionics are just as advanced if not more so than anything the raptor or f-35 has to offer,im gonna assume your american here,correct me if i'm wrong about your nationality,but to the point, America is not the be all and end all, europe is more advanced in every single field of research(with exception to maybe stealth,hats off to ye on that one Salute

)

For the record I think these vs threads get out of hand way to quick to be allowed...The fact that you think EF avionics are even equal to what the Raptor and 35 offer shows your lack of research. Yes I'm American...I'd still say that if the 22 and 35 were made by the Chinese...Nationality has nothing to do with someone's personal opinion...don't bring it up again. Being a Friday, I needed a good laugh and thanks to your last sentence, I got it...Thanks!

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 20, 2005 Posts: 1035 Status: Offline

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:

with the exception of radar, F-22 has to be UPGRADED to the F-35s avionics level.

Why?? Just so it has those cool displays?? I think not, it works just fine!

Tada, I'm not American, i'm a 32 years old Italian, and I love Typhoon, but honestly i would NEVER change a F22 with a EF2000..

checksixx wrote:

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:

with the exception of radar, F-22 has to be UPGRADED to the F-35s avionics level.

Why?? Just so it has those cool displays?? I think not, it works just fine!

Maybe because the F-35's Radar is more advanced then the F-22's one...

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 20, 2005 Posts: 1035 Status: Offline

Nothing that will make a big difference for the F-22 though...its a non-issue.

I think it's dangerous that the USA thinks it should now rely on stealth in small numbers... it seems most here don't agree with me, but Americans have been proven wrong in this type of thinking many times before, examples are the thinking that the Gun was no longer needed whent he F-4 started carrying Sidewinders...

Stealth ain't armour, it's just a thick leather jacket that might just save you if the knife comes in at the right angel.

And for the debate, technology is all fine and well, and may I point out the Europeans aren't that far behind in situational awareness then many here seem to believe. But again, technology helps a shitload but in the end it's the pilot that has to do it (untill some awfull day...) and I hate to say it but... USAF pilots aren't exactly NATO's finest.

Elite 1K Joined: Aug 01, 2006 Posts: 1003 Status: Offline

Driver wrote:

I think it's dangerous that the USA thinks it should now rely on stealth in small numbers... it seems most here don't agree with me, but Americans have been proven wrong in this type of thinking many times before, examples are the thinking that the Gun was no longer needed whent he F-4 started carrying Sidewinders...

Stealth ain't armour, it's just a thick leather jacket that might just save you if the knife comes in at the right angel.

And for the debate, technology is all fine and well, and may I point out the Europeans aren't that far behind in situational awareness then many here seem to believe. But again, technology helps a shitload but in the end it's the pilot that has to do it (untill some awfull day...) and I hate to say it but... USAF pilots aren't exactly NATO's finest.

No, Stealth is not the ONLY thing that matters. But, today, it matters way way more than a little more agility or a little more speed. Between the F-16 and the F-35, the US has flown more super agility research prototypes than all of Europe and the rest of the world combined. We investigated the forward swept wing, 2D TVC, 3D TVC, canards, cranked deltas, tri-planes -- you name it we have tried it not just in theory but with a flight test program and flying hardware. But when it comes to designing the 5th generation fighters for the new millennium, we simply didn’t do an aircraft based first and foremost on agility. Why? Because we also understand it doesn’t matter that much if you can turn a tiny bit tighter than your opponent. Most A2A exchanges are not going to be decided by agility and none of the A2G exchanges will be. The best thing that current technology can do for an aircraft is to give it VLO which in effect cuts the enemy’s sensor range to about 1/8 what it normally is and give it adequate performance and agility to fly smartly. If money is no object, you can also build a big jet with enough installed power to cruise at Mach 1.7 with full weapons and fuel, if not even that is secondary.

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