F-16 Reference
5th Gen Fighters
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WOLF
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 Posted: Jul 04, 2007 - 03:49 PM
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Joined: Feb 17, 2004
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According to rumours, the FAB (Forca Aerea Brasileña) could announce the purchase of an undetermined yet number of F-16 "Vipers" Jets, Brand New, to respond the Venezuela's Sukhoi threat in the latin american region. The Vipers was offered in 2002 as a part of the F-X FAB's program, pospossed. The last buy of the FAB was 12 second-hand Mirage M2000 RDI from France, wich looks not a good choice for the FAB (maintenance costs).
This information is still unoficial.
Regards |
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Sponsor
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 Posted: Nov 18, 2008 - 11:43 PM
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F-16.net Sponsor
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renatohm
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Posted: Jul 04, 2007 - 05:55 PM
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Joined: Dec 27, 2004
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WOLF wrote:
According to rumours, the FAB (Forca Aerea Brasileña) could announce the purchase of an undetermined yet number of F-16 "Vipers" Jets, Brand New, to respond the Venezuela's Sukhoi threat in the latin american region. The Vipers was offered in 2002 as a part of the F-X FAB's program, pospossed. The last buy of the FAB was 12 second-hand Mirage M2000 RDI from France, wich looks not a good choice for the FAB (maintenance costs).
This information is still unoficial.
Regards
1st, it is Força Aérea Brasileira. We speak Portuguese here, not Spanish.
2nd, the Mirage 2000 was not bought, it was leased 'till the F-X program decides on a new fighter. Main problem with the M2K is it has short legs.
3rd, unfortunately, Brazil and Venezuela are very good friends, so we probably won't accelerate the F-X due to Chavez.
Brazil won't, I believe, choose the Viper, because the US won't give us irrestrict access to the softwares and top tier weaponry (AMRAAM, JDAM, JSOW, etc.). Russia will, so there's a great chance that Brazil chooses the Flanker. Or the Rafale, as France granted access to hi-tech weapons and possibly source code. Moreover, the throw weight (payload x combat radius) of the Viper is somewhat low for a country as large as Brazil, specially if we consider that the low budget for the program - something around USD 1 bn, which gives roughly between 12-24 fighters, depending on model, weapons, etc..
And I guess that no fighter smaller than an F-15 can give us enough punch with long range. Moreover, the Viper intake is too close to the ground, and FOD is a very real threat in Brazil. Viper landing gear is not so good for less than perfect runways, another common thing in Brazil. |
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stavros
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Posted: Jul 04, 2007 - 07:37 PM
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Joined: Jul 04, 2007
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"1st, it is Força Aérea Brasileira. We speak Portuguese here, not Spanish."
ja ja ja ja ja ja, muy buen chiste joao  .
Un saludo. |
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WOLF
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Posted: Jul 05, 2007 - 02:44 PM
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renatohm wrote:
1st, it is Força Aérea Brasileira. We speak Portuguese here, not Spanish.
2nd, the Mirage 2000 was not bought, it was leased 'till the F-X program decides on a new fighter. Main problem with the M2K is it has short legs.
3rd, unfortunately, Brazil and Venezuela are very good friends, so we probably won't accelerate the F-X due to Chavez.
Brazil won't, I believe, choose the Viper, because the US won't give us irrestrict access to the softwares and top tier weaponry (AMRAAM, JDAM, JSOW, etc.). Russia will, so there's a great chance that Brazil chooses the Flanker. Or the Rafale, as France granted access to hi-tech weapons and possibly source code. Moreover, the throw weight (payload x combat radius) of the Viper is somewhat low for a country as large as Brazil, specially if we consider that the low budget for the program - something around USD 1 bn, which gives roughly between 12-24 fighters, depending on model, weapons, etc..
And I guess that no fighter smaller than an F-15 can give us enough punch with long range. Moreover, the Viper intake is too close to the ground, and FOD is a very real threat in Brazil. Viper landing gear is not so good for less than perfect runways, another common thing in Brazil.
4. (News in this site) Brazil - Força Aérea Brasileira
Brazil was looking for a first batch of 12 to 24 fighter aircraft, in order to replace the aging Mirage III fleet. The bid was put on hold in January 2003 but taken up again in October of that year.
Brazil would choose from the Lockheed-Martin F-16C/D, the Swedish JAS-39 Gripen, the Russian build Su-35, and finally the Dassault Mirage 2000BR. The latter teamed up with the domestic aircraft manufacturer Embraer to take a chance at the bid. (both Jets are "tiny" for a larger country as Brazil  )
In February of 2005 the Brazilean government once again abandonned its plans for the Air Force upgrade. The bidding process was canceled because technological advancements would have rendered the aircraft being considered obsolete, the Air Force said in a statement.
Ultimately the Brazilean government decided to purchase 12 second-hand Mirage 2000 fighters from France. (if they was leased, may be can you give us more data about that agreement don you?)
5.- The Vipers was offerered in 2002 to Brazil : "The Government of Brazil (GOB) has requested a possible sale of 12 F-16C/D Block 50+ aircraft with either the F100-PW-229 or F110-GE-129 engine and APG-68(V)9 FMS radars, two spare F100-PW-229 or two spare F110-GE-129 engines, 14 LANTIRN Targeting Pods (FMS variant), 14 LANTIRN Navigation Pods with Terrain Following Radar (TFR), 48 AIM-120C Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) and four AMRAAM training missiles, 12 M61 Vulcan cannon, 48 LAU-129 launchers, eight AN/ALQ-131 Countermeasures, LANTIRN Night Vision Goggle compatible cockpits, the capability to employ a wide variety of munitions, support equipment, software development / integration, modification kits, spares and repair parts, flight test instrumentation, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics personnel services, and other related requirements to
ensure full program supportability. The estimated cost is $909 million."
Check also here in F-16.net :
http://www.f-16.net/news_article712.html
And here in F-16.net we all speak English, not spanish, not portuguese
Regards |
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ThomasDWeiss
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Posted: Jul 05, 2007 - 07:06 PM
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Hugo Chaves is an unbalanced dictator - that can easily go from being a friend to a bully and an enemy.
Wathever decisions were taken, they will become public soon - and certainly if the US decides to sell equipment to Brazil, will make available all weapons without restrictions, and provide complete support to Brazil to operate this equipment.
The Brazilian Navy just sent its latest SSK to train with US Navy warships in ASW warfare, not something the US does for a country it does not trust, as it will reveal to the Brazilian Navy a lot about the capabilities and vulnerabilities of US Navy warships.
This gives an idea of the level of trust between both countries. |
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renatohm
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Posted: Jul 05, 2007 - 08:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 27, 2004
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To Wolf: I made that comment as an explanation, but my tone was hostile. I apologize.
Yeah, Brazil and US do have their differences, but they have always been good friends overall. Not like US/UK, but good relations.
I do know Chávez is a problem, but the Brazilian Govt doesn't think (at least pretends) so.
If I remember, US would sell but not deliver the AMRAAMs, unless other neighbour countries have BVR missiles as well. And US certainly won't grant access to the GPS high precision codes - the J-series were not even offered for Brazil.
About the M2Ks: I saw on a magazine they were leased, that doesn't mean they weren't sold 'at banana's cost', as the French are desperately trying to sell Rafales to anyone outside France.
The point is not exactly which plane FAB chooses. All of them are fearsome machines, which will allow us to fully exploit our AEW&C aircrafts and data links, just recently aded to our inventory. To fully use its potetial, however, we need BVR missiles. Then things may get hard, as the US doesn't want to transfer weapons or fighter technologies, as do the Russians (fighters/weapons), the South Africans and Israel (weapons). I pray that the decision taken is not political, but technical, and, for lots of reasons, I hope the Sukhois are chosen, togheter with good BVR AAMs and other advanced weapons, be they Russian, Israeli, South African Chinese, etc., as long as there is technology transfer AND local production of the stuff! |
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Lieven
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Posted: Jul 05, 2007 - 08:31 PM
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F-16.net Webmaster
Joined: May 23, 2003
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For related articles, see:
- <a href="news_article1473.html">Royal Netherlands Air Force offers surplus F-16s to Chile and Brazil</a>
- <a href="news_article1314.html">Brazil cancels jet fighter upgrade plans</a>
- <a href="/news_article992.html">Brazil will decide on jet fighter deal in March</a>
- <a href="news_article863.html">Brazil announces plans to buy fighter jets</a>
- <a href="news_article712.html">Pentagon offers F-16s to Brazil</a>
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WOLF
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Posted: Jul 06, 2007 - 03:03 PM
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renatohm wrote:
To Wolf: I made that comment as an explanation, but my tone was hostile. I apologize.
No hay problema renatohm
About the decision of US in order to no-proliferation of advanced weapons in the Latin American region, that decision was revoked when the press shows the BVR R77 in service in the Peruvian Air Force, in fact, the Chilean Air Force has GPS Guided weapons and BVR missiles in their inventory.
I think that if the FAB choose the advanced Vipers they can integrate US Advanced Weapons and / or Israel procedence Advanced Weapons (as Chilean Vipers does). By the other hand, the French Rafale is an already tecnologicamente phased out jet (Doesn't have AESA radar for example) and face to operate and to maintain, and its armament is exclusive French.
May be (and this is a very personal opinion), the FAB must take the Advanced Vipers (Block 50+ or 52+) and wait until the introduction of the F-35 to keep on the edge of technology.
Regards. |
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renatohm
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Posted: Jul 07, 2007 - 03:22 PM
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Joined: Dec 27, 2004
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I agree, but politicians think (?) different. And about AESA: soon enough, all non-US F-X competitors will field'em (Rafale, Eurofighter, Sukhoi, MiG).
IF the Viper comes with GPS weapons and AMRAAM, then it starts to be good. But throw weight is still an issue. |
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