Forum: F-16 versus XYZ

Active Member Joined: Mar 14, 2007 - 11:44 PM Posts: 155

now really ...
AWACS does not allow you to use the surprise attack ( big disadvantage) specially on open terrain by flying low.
Rugged terrain might help a bit, but still not enough.
flying high and fast is not working because u are flying into the defenders missiles ( INCREASE CLOSURE)
using jamming and flying in close formations might trick the defenders to think that is just 1 f-16 instead of 4 but ...
u still need to beat the Amraam.
no matter how u split your formation or the direction of the attack the defenders are going to cut your way to the awacs hence u have to shoot them down ( and survive...) to get a shoot at awacs.

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thank you for that, I thought my head would hurt for the rest of the night.

Active Member Joined: Mar 14, 2007 - 11:44 PM Posts: 155

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:

thank you for that, I thought my head would hurt for the rest of the night.

but lets make it even simple
the vipers engage the defenders aprox 50km ahead of the awacs,by now all fuel tanks are dropped ( clean configuration),vipers are on full afterburner, the fight lasts aprox 5 min.
in 5 min the awacs is putting another 90km between him and the vipers.
90+50=140km.
it`s not enough fuel left in f-16 to intercept, destroy and return to friendly airspace to refuel.

LOL. I doubt the fight would be 5 min, and I doubt that F-16s would need full AB to catch up to AWACS, but the point is still valid that if an enemy air patrol got to withing range to fight the escorts then AWACS would put some distance between itself and them and F-16 has small gas tanks.

Active Member Joined: Mar 14, 2007 - 11:44 PM Posts: 155

maybe it would be interesting to see how the Russians address the problem
http://sistemadearmas.sites.uol.com.br/aam/r172.html
if u don't understand Portuguese i can translate
but i think the pictures would be clearer

I understood enough to see that its a 300-400km missile designed for anti awacs, that would be an interesting toy for this scenario.

Re-thinking this over again:

1 AMRAAM wouldnt be good enough to Kill an AWACS, its is a defense jamming powerhowse, it would pump so much noise and chaff it would require much more persistence to kill it. That gives advantage to the defenders as the attackers will have to spend more energy and weapons on their objectives.

Who wins would depend on the skills and training of both the F-15 pilots and the F-16 pilots.
And yes the AWACS can be jammed. Although with the power output and the computers on board it would be tough.

ANY VIPER PIOLET OUT THERE TO ANALYSE THE SITUATION?

Quote:

Who wins would depend on the skills and training of both the F-15 pilots and the F-16 pilots.

I agree with this dude. It all depends on how good the pilot is.

Ummm...in any tactical situation, wouldn't you have to consider the capabilities of the aircrafts involved? I'm pretty sure aircraft capability is a big part of how tactics and decisions during engagements are dictated.

Otherwise, if the 4 F-16s are the only enemy aircraft in the area and all 4 are coming from the same direction, then my guess is AWACS will pick them up on radar, vector the F-15s to that direction, and the F-15s form a protective barrier and engage BVR, while the AWACS keeps a safe distance (keeping in mind the F-16's capabilities?). If it's 4v4, then it all comes down to who's a better pilot cuz the escorts can be split evenly with at least one F-15 on an F-16. Pretty much a dumbed-up version of what Cad said earlier.

Forum Veteran Joined: Dec 25, 2003 - 10:03 PM Posts: 679

The real question is, who calls it a Fighting Falcon!??! Get with it, dude.

Active Member Joined: Mar 14, 2007 - 11:44 PM Posts: 155

Fighting might be fun in sims , but in real life nobody wants to get in a fight without knowing the outcome.
You might dodge a few missiles in a SIMULATOR but how many pilots have dodgeD a AMRAAM OR A SPAROW FOR THAT MATTER in real life ?

Pilot skill has been shown to be the most important thing in aerial warfare. If a pilot knows his aircraft and his opponents then he can design tactics that minimize his weakness and maximizes his strength.
Plenty of North Vietnamese and a couple of Iraqi pilots have dodged sparrows. During Allied Force one serb pilot had three Amraams fired at him before he was brought down.

The Air Force doesn't spend time and effort trying to figure out if the F-16 can take out an AWACS or F-15...or whatever the case may be. Why? What's the point. Every acft in the inventory was designed to do a specific job. They all have their differences and abilities. IF they didn't I would have to question why we bought them. It's fun to say, "mine is better than yours" but the question will never be answered in a true fight...I hope.

Forum: F-16 versus XYZ

HUNTING FIGHTING FALCONS