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Enthusiast Joined: Jun 01, 2004 Posts: 53

i think it is. considering the last unit was delivered on 1990 and the whole fleet is, i think, still air worthy. AF is planning to retire all 52 nighthawks by next year to be replaced by the f-22 raptors. i believe the f-22 is the best out there but replacing a still well able aircraft, still fit for the fight and 1 of the only 3 operational stealth aircraft in the world is a little bit absurd.

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Enthusiast Joined: Apr 24, 2007 Posts: 32

I'll side w/ the AF. They have statisticians around to do the math, they know when to lay off some workers. Maybe they're looking at it like... "the more we cut of these old roaches, the more we pay on some raptors". At the end of the day we know it's not a question if we can get the vintage stealth up and on its targets. We build so much high quality stuff and it sucks to see them go. This only enforces the thoughts of another black project in the works.

I wonder what the annual cost for the training, labor, maintenance, and fuel are for the F-117's. Any guesstimates?

Anyone seen any at DM yet? I'm wondering how you "store" them. I can't see them doing the traditional spraylat to the jets and I know there is a provision for a sort of "flyable" storage so that if necess the jets can "quickly" become available. I'd think, however that any storage of the ac would have to be enclosed?

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2862

Hi Ace,

As mentioned in other parts of the forum including a news release. F117s won't be stored at DM. They will be stored at a secure area in Tonapah, Nevada.

I think that USAF needs to drum up some funds from ( almost thin air these days Evil or Very Mad

) To sell an F-22 upgrade to one designated squadron of F-22s. That upgrade is to put the EOTS system going into JSF onto a Squadron of F-22s. There is already growth space in the jet for this system, it just wasn't put in so as to meet initial delivery cost targets. This, along with the now successful testing of Laser-JDAM, would give USAF one F-22 squadron that can laser designate for kick down the door strike duties that required putting a 500 or 1000 pounder into a window, vent whatever and of course give a bit of BDA, this all of course assumes the WX cooperates for this weapon delivery method.

Given where we are at now with funds, this would give extra punch and good bang for the buck. One squadron for now and decided if there needs to be any increase in airframe upgrade numbers later.

Re: the decision to retire F-117. A pilot serving his time at Maxwell wrote a paper that the retirement could be at this time hasty ( yes we desperately need to save money ). His point was that given all the potential hot spots, Iran, PacRim-N Korea or any other unknowns,.... that we need to have a bit more AEF structure on hand for quick response strike. And given our current small total number of Low Observable strike airframes, retirement now isn't a hot idea. (Note: Now with JASSM in the toilet, the idea of keeping F-117 around has a few more legs... even if those are unfunded legs). Keeping F-117s around until JSF started standing up in operational squadrons, wouldn't be such a bad thing. Given that F-117 could probably do OK for parts of a NK IADS. But yes there is that nasty money issue again. In a perfect world, it would be nice to make some space at Misawa and have one squadron there. This would go nicely with the F-16 SEAD/DEAD specialists there.

I didn't vote. I didn't think I was informed enough on the topic to put in a vote... seeing as I don't get classified threat roadmap planning stuff etc etc. Laughing

"As mentioned in other parts of the forum including a news release. F117s won't be stored at DM. They will be stored at a secure area in Tonapah, Nevada"

(hand moving up to smack head) Thanks I know I read that too but lately I'm just glad my head is nailed on, thanks.

Sounds to me that EOTS could be one of the many "lot" improvements over time. I have been cautioned not to use the phrase "Block" when referring to these 'upgrades' to the Raptor.

good to be back

I Also think the retirement of the F117 Is too early since JSF IS NOT OPERATIONAL.
THE f-22 have other stuff to do and forcing them to do the f-117 job means giving up air superiority misions for a/g
i dont think B-2 is a choice also... Question

Enthusiast Joined: Apr 24, 2007 Posts: 32

I read they'll have their wings removed and will be stored in their original hangars at Tonopah. In desert storm they flew 1,300 sorties, but only over 100 combat sorties on the war on terror. If all hell breaks loose in Iran, we'll need them when we get on the 5 yard line. BTW, approximately how many F-22's will be flying when the last of the F-117's are in the hangars?

Elite 3K Joined: May 10, 2004 Posts: 3098 Status: Offline

I don't think it's too early. I hate to see them go (would be nice to have a couple for heritage flights), but they're a maintenance intensive aircraft like the Tomcat. They have one specialty - carry 2x2000lb bombs and precisely place them. That can be done other ways.

I do think the B-2 is an option - fewer B-2s can do the job due to comparable stealth and higher payload.

Senior member Joined: Apr 16, 2005 Posts: 486

Cad wrote:

I Also think the retirement of the F117 Is too early since JSF IS NOT OPERATIONAL.
THE f-22 have other stuff to do and forcing them to do the f-117 job means giving up air superiority misions for a/g
i dont think B-2 is a choice also... Question

I agree.

The F-117s have been upgraded in the last couple of years to carry all the GPS weapons. They are still very lethal. And given the small number of F-22s available, they would have had better things to do than to drop bombs. Also F-22s cannot drop 2000lbs bombs and don't have a laser capability.

They could have retired F-15s instead. They have over 500 of them and 50 more or less would not have made much difference, especially given the fact that the F-22 is like 10 times more lethal.

Enthusiast Joined: Apr 24, 2007 Posts: 32

I don't think they will be giving up air superiority missions. IMO I think they'll be asked to provide them. The AF already stated that the F-22 gives us the daytime B-2 ability (greater survivability chances). They can just provide their modern air superiority by escorting B-2's going deep....right? I would think that 24/7 raids on high-value targets can set the stage for an authentic blitzkrieg in a full scale offensive.

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2862

Then their is the other kind of "air superiority". A legacy force/IADS actually has to try and stop F-22s with JDAM or SDBs from getting through. Surprised

Has nothing to do with capability...has everything to do with best use of shrinking budget.

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is the retirement of F-117 too early?