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Well, I tend to disagree with ViperEnforcer. The Pratt motors DID NOT perform well, in fact, were well underpowered. The Pratt, for a time, was restricted from combat. I have flown the -220 a few times and it IS WEAK, at least on the Block 42. I would take a GE any day of the week and twice on Sunday over and Pratt piece of Sh#!. The ONLY exception maybe the -229, but it still has the standard Pratt problems......more complicated restart CAPS and engine limits. I mean, who ties the motor nozzle to the gear position??? (Viper drivers will understand).

The Pratt motors did perform well at the "intermediate level" of block 25 and 32. But when pressed in the block 42's, the Pratt -220's were in fact doggishly under powered when weighted down with a full load. I know, I used to hear it constantly from pilots when first got Block 42's at Nellis.
GE-100's were am much better iron pusher by far!

The Pratt 200/220 has a commendable mishap record (overall, and when compared to other/older motors) , but from C models onward, Pratt has a 4-1 (includeds 220/E & 229) Engine mishap safety record to GE. Not a very good stat when GE comprises about 75% of the Viper production run from Block 30 onward!

It wasn't until the Pratt -229 came along that Pratt finally put some balls into these late block Vipers. by them the better GE-129 was in the counter Viper F-16 Block 50.

The Pratt motor is still a decent motor, though after working both, GE is the better of the two.

So I agree with you - GE is my motor of choice anyway of the of the week!

Mike V

Enthusiast Joined: Mar 17, 2004 Posts: 53 Status: Offline

I have a hypothetical question related to this topic...Is it possible to convert a Block-40 to Block-50 by changing the engine from GE-100 to GE-129 without modifiying the airframe? Of course, I am assuming that after CCIP cockpits and avionics will be similar or the same...

Sure is! We've done it to a few Edwards jet.

83-1120 A block 25 converted to Block 30. Takes both GE 100 & GE 129.
86-0359 Block 30 (my jet some eyars ago) can take Both GE's as well.

87-0392 Block 40 has a GE-129.

To Mod to a GE-129, the false duct has to be removed. The cable connects get routed through there by virtue of the mod. A connector mod and updated aircraft software is all that is required off the top my head.

ECS ducting, Throttle, dogbone, and all other related connections are the same.

I all acutalality, it would be a fairly easy mod and not very expensive, although new GE-129's, or a rebuilt GE-100 to -129 specs would be quite costly.

Mike V

Enthusiast Joined: Mar 17, 2004 Posts: 53 Status: Offline

Thanks Mike,

I just wanted to know if it is possible to make this change without too much airframe work...Buying a new GE-129 engine or modifiying GE-100 to GE-129 standards can be costly proposal..I guess it will not worth it since the main idea behind CCIP is to bring Block-40/50 aircrafts up to the common avionics and software levels...but still after CCIP upgrade, Block-40 and Block-50 a/cs can not be mixed at the squadron level due to engine differences...I would want to see this happen despite cost of engine upgrade. Bright side would be, trust increase in Block-40 LANTIRN squadrons will be beneficial at least...

One thing to note is that the Block 40 thrust is not really an issue with a GE-100 as it is with a Prat-220 on block 42's!

Some ANG Block 42's have been retrofitted with Pratt-229's. The power gained from Pratt-220's to -229's is far greater than what would be had from a GE-100 to GE-129, even with the GE-129 the most powerful of the lot. The GE -100 is well suited as a iron pusher than the Pratt-220 will ever be.

Mike V

Newbie Joined: Mar 29, 2005 Posts: 6 Status: Offline

Hello there. I'm a new user. My name is Pinky, and I'm an 18-year-old genetics student from NZ. I'm a crazed model builder and aviation fan, and have just begun building a huge 1/32 F-16CJ block 50 model.

These diagrams will be a great help as I'm adding all the external pumbing and wiring to the outside of the engine (A GE 110-129). If anyone has other pictures that clearly show the layout of the external systems I'd be most grateful if you could post them, or email them to me at pinky(dot)ferret(at)gmail(dot)com.

Thanks!

Just a great excuse to post a photo I took at the Avalon Air Show on the 20th of March.
It shows the bum end of the F110-GE-129. It is a great looking hole I reckon.
Note that the external colour of the petals is not silvery but slightly golden.
The plane itself is an F-16C block 50D CCIP and had been re-delivered to Misawa in February.
The greys were slightly darker in shade that the ones I have seen previously. Maybe because they
are recently painted planes.

Newbie Joined: Mar 29, 2005 Posts: 6 Status: Offline

Ah, brilliant. I was just about to airbrush the "turkey-feather" exaust petals today, this is handy. Thanks!

photos of the different modules of the f110 here

http://www.enginehistory.org/f110ge100.htm

it is good stuff

Newbie Joined: Jul 17, 2004 Posts: 8 Status: Offline

FOD wrote:

I have some experience with GE F110 engine.Besides the famous stage 1 fins there are quite a few vulnerabilities that keep the engines crew work around the clock, as well as the ndt techs.
The thrust increase does not come for free, the engine is quite reliable but it's a pain to deal with .

Would you mind sharing some stories regarding the pain to deal with F110? I thought it's more firendly to the ground crews than F100.

Thanks.

Newbie Joined: Jul 17, 2004 Posts: 8 Status: Offline

ViperEnforcer wrote:

The Pratt motor is still a decent motor, though after working both, GE is the better of the two.

So I agree with you - GE is my motor of choice anyway of the of the week!
Mike V

Questions if you do not mind:

Isn't the F110 perforamed good on thrust with higher SFC and weight of the engine? Do you think this two issues would not make F110 not favorable in some way?

Thanks.

Pinky wrote:

Hello there. I'm a new user. My name is Pinky, and I'm an 18-year-old genetics student from NZ. I'm a crazed model builder and aviation fan, and have just begun building a huge 1/32 F-16CJ block 50 model.

These diagrams will be a great help as I'm adding all the external pumbing and wiring to the outside of the engine (A GE 110-129). If anyone has other pictures that clearly show the layout of the external systems I'd be most grateful if you could post them, or email them to me at pinky(dot)ferret(at)gmail(dot)com.

Thanks!

Wellcome aboard. There are a few avid model builders in here including myself. I was also on the research team for the Tamiya Block 50 (and eventually block 40) over a year ago. The final product in nothing short of outstanding and one of the best injection molded aircraft kits to date.

If you haven't heard already, the DACO book is the single best F-16 reference a Viper modeler can have.

Check out <a href="http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/title.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/title.htm</a> as there's been a host of Viper models being built

Mike Valdez

GE makes a much better engine than P&W... with a GE engine, if it quits you aint getting the thing back, but it will run like a champ up to that point. with P&W, they like to sputter and compressor stall and just not run as well. GE= Good Engine...

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F110-GE-129 Design