Forum: F-22A Raptor

SkunkWorksPlayboy wrote:

Is everything a dime a dozen over in China or what?

Let's put it this way... they sure can flood an area with fighters, fight with a lop sided loss ratio and perhaps hinder a few planes from reaching their intended target(s). Over a few weeks thats will result in a level of attrition even the Chinese cannot afford. And besides if we are fighting a 2000 aircraft aircraft with a token commitment of say 50 fighters, we won't be able to be effective warning or no warning.

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dwightlooi wrote:

Tinito_16 wrote:

hmmmmmm.... I think the radar cross section of an F-117 is competitive with that of a Raptor. Unfortunately the downing of one in Serbia has placed this assumption in doubt, and the Air Force has reinforced this (because they want new jets like the F-22 and I can't blame them). I believe the downing was a one-off, because of operational mistakes (the planes were using the exact same routes in and out of Serbia). I agree with Master-of-Disaster, the F-117 is still a usefull plane, but when the AF had to choose between the F-117 and the F-22, it chose the Raptor - with good reason.

The Serbian incident proves nothing other than the fact that if you fly the same flight path day after day and bomb the same two targets in a row, it doesn't take much for the enemy to set up a radar between the two target locations, use a stop watch to time estimate roughly when you will be overhead and ambush you with by turning the radar on within a couple of kms with no prior warning.

Stealth doesn't make you undetectable. It makes the enemy's detection range much much shorter. If you can reduce the range of the SAM radar(s) from 150km to 20km the air defense network becomes completely ineffective. But it won't prevent you from getting killed if someone jumps you are a radar from 5km out.

Agree, it was a one off event. If they consistantly started dropping several F-117s during that op, then you would have a problem.

the difference is the f-117 absorbs less because it uses a flat surface design which reflects more radar than it absorbs most is reflected in wrong direction if you look at an f-22 from the top veiw notice the front side of the wings run parallel to the aelerons this acctually helps it absorb radar more efficiently and you can find this on other parts of the aircraft also of unless of course you are high up in the military we will not know what all helps the f-22 be stealth

Necro much?

By the way, periods and commas are your friends.

OK, I am admittedly not an expert, just an av. enthusiast with lots of info. so here goes. Anyone who is a pro and in the know can correct me if I'm wrong. The 117 and the 22 have roughly the same rcs which is for all practical purposes near invis. The 117 has the cross sect. of a 1/2 inch ball bearing that is for sure (comes from several Lockheed books) the decision of retiring the 117 is the same as that of the SR-71, WWAYYYYY high per flight costs. the 117 and SR-71 were not planes you could kick the tires, light the fires and go fly around. From special skin treatment to security to pre-set tanker support to paint, coatings, ram, etc. they both were just maint. intensive. Compare that with comp. low maint. F-22 flights (AND its a fighter AND supercruise AND super radar capablilities)and satellite or UAV pics its like throwing pennies vs. Benjamins. Someone mentioned the B-52 in comparision because of age. Don't think of the F-117 in terms of age, it is still a performer in the current radar environment. Think in terms of what if you had to strip and repaint the ENTIRE B-52 each sortie?

The F-22 has about 1% the RCS as the F-117.

SpudmanWP wrote:

The F-22 has about 1% the RCS as the F-117.

Seriously? That seems a little extreme to myself.

On a related note I don't suppose anyone has a comprehensive list of various different modern fighter and attack aircrat RCS values? They seem to be very hard figures to come by.

Here is how they generally break down:

F-117 = .01 m^2
B-2 & F-35 = .001 m^2
F-22 = .0001 m^2

Since there are no official values, these are speculative at best.

Forum: F-22A Raptor

F-117 stealth tech obsolete compared to F-22 stealth tech