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What would be the point of trying to shoot one down? Just maneuver around it and take out the site with an 88 or JDAM.
Besides there are other counter measures that will work to avoid contact with one.
Why waste a good expensive missile for a maybe hit when you can do it cheaper and better with CM?

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Why degrade your offensive options with a million to one hail mary shot. If you've hosed off all your missles at SAM and have nothing left for your CAP, well....SAM wins anyway and you get to fly home instead of walk.

Enthusiast Joined: Jan 10, 2007 Posts: 51 Status: Offline

ACMIguy wrote:

What would be the point of trying to shoot one down? Just maneuver around it and take out the site with an 88 or JDAM.
Besides there are other counter measures that will work to avoid contact with one.
Why waste a good expensive missile for a maybe hit when you can do it cheaper and better with CM?

Depends which SAM we are talking about - forget about Chaff if a later SA-20 comes up - and forget about out turning it also - I would say jamming and towed decoys are your only bet (assuming the SAM isn't also HOJ).

So if a SAM is launched y not fire an AIM-9X it may be worth a try if the seeker locks on - and if you think you may be wasting a missile - well a missile with that range is pretty useless against any decent opposition in a BVR contest - where you want AMRAAM's and plenty of distance. (talking no stealth here btw!)

Elite 1K Joined: Aug 19, 2004 Posts: 1092

The idea of a towed decoy is to make the missile go for the decoy towed behind your aircraft rather than your aircraft itself. It doesn't matter if the missile has HOJ capabilities or not... as long as it homes in on the decoy. As for outturning a missile, how do you mean exactly? Although difficult, you can outturn or outrun an advanced SAM like an SA-20 or whatever. The conditions have to right however. If you have enough distance and/or enough speed to start out with, you can outtrun and/or outmaneuver the missile. By outmaneuvering, I don't necessarily mean outturning. Then again, sometimes it's virtually impossible to generate enough of a miss distance between aircraft and missile to avoid getting caught by the missile warhead's blast/shrapnel. Regardless, I doubt an AIM-9X is going to have much success against an incoming SAM at the ranges where it's most effective. You'd probably have a better chance hitting the thing with an AMRAAM from further out for all I know... and I don't know much. Very Happy

Enthusiast Joined: Jan 26, 2006 Posts: 75 Status: Offline

How about we stop talking about how to defend against threats. A few of these posts have gotten danger close to talking classified and that's not information I want the enemy to have. Thank you.

Elite 1K Joined: Aug 19, 2004 Posts: 1092

Magnum wrote:

How about we stop talking about how to defend against threats. A few of these posts have gotten danger close to talking classified and that's not information I want the enemy to have. Thank you.

Which ones? Mine? I got most of my information from PC combat flight simulators like Falcon 4.0 and Janes F/A-18. I don't know how I could have come close to crossing the line seeing as I have no access to classified information nor have I ever. I haven't read anything that sounds close to crossing the line in this thread. By the way, I heard that you're never supposed to confirm or deny any comments that touch on a potentially sensitive subject. Thus, if you actually know that someone is making some pretty good educated guesses in this thread, you should not confirm this by stating that people are coming close to talking classified. That's just stupid. I've talked to people who hold or have held security clearances and whenever I touched on sensitive subjects they simply clammed up. If I asked them direct questions which they couldn't answer, they simply refused to answer... sometimes simply by not saying anything at all. Your reaction is completely out of step with procedure in my experience.

Enthusiast Joined: Jan 26, 2006 Posts: 75 Status: Offline

Lets take a look at what you just said.

"I have no access to classified information nor have I ever."
"I haven't read anything that sounds close to crossing the line in this thread."

So tell me how you'd know if anything was close to crossing the line if you've never dealt with the information on the other side of the line? That's a ridiculous comment. Not to mention how you would even know what is in or out of "step" with security procedures.

Its the direction of the conversation that has me worried. Threat reactions are classified for a reason and I want to make sure they stay that way. Its human nature to correct things that you say incorrectly and I don't want guys accidentally saying anything they shouldn't be saying.

Elite 1K Joined: Aug 19, 2004 Posts: 1092

I know what's not classified... I know a lot of what's not classified. That's how I know this thread doesn't come close to crossing the line. And you're not the boss of this place. Stop trying to act as if you have some authority. The only thing I see you having is no clue what one can learn from just playing PC combat flight sims. You have no clue what's not classified and think you know what is and think you're some security officer with a duty to patrol this forum. Go patrol Google... more sensitive information on there. I'm sick of these threads with people such as yourself coming in all high and mighty as if they're needed to protect national security. Too bad if you don't like the direction you think things are going. If something classified gets posted on here, the last thing you want to do is confirm or deny the authenticity of the leaked information. To deny means to give information. To confirm means to give information. And who do you think needs your help to keep their mouth shut? If people need YOU on THIS FORUM to keep from releasing classified information, they shouldn't have security clearances in the first place. It's funny though... you're probably flipping out about people like me who've just learned a bunch of stuff on these subjects from their interest in military aviation, combat flight sims, etc. You actually think we're going off some secret knowledge.... hahaha... amusing. Falcon 4.0, Janes F/A-18, and so on... try them out. Check out the home on jam radar modes... ooooooooo. Check out the radar warning receiver... double oooooooo. Check out the towed decoy.... oh no they didn't!!!!

Silly... so silly.

A SAM is most likely coming right at its target, most likely from behind or below, so your own missiles would most likely be pointing in the wrong direction making them to slow to make the turn to intercept the SAM. Your wingman may, however, be able to get a better angle and if in the right position, and time allows, may be able to send an X at the SAM, but would it be fast enough?

Bump. Found this... maybe vipernice is not too crazy anyway.

Quote:

WASHINGTON, Dec. 4 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Riki Ellison, President of the Missile Defense Advocacy Alliance (MDAA)

"Yesterday in the skies over New Mexico, a U.S. Air Force F-16 fighter launched two air-to-air (AIM-9X) missiles and successfully intercepted a boosting rocket launched from the White Sands Missile Range, marking the first time a missile defense intercept was made from an air-based platform."

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show ... 6084.shtml

davedogman wrote:

Bump. Found this... maybe vipernice is not too crazy anyway.

Quote:

WASHINGTON, Dec. 4 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Riki Ellison, President of the Missile Defense Advocacy Alliance (MDAA)

"Yesterday in the skies over New Mexico, a U.S. Air Force F-16 fighter launched two air-to-air (AIM-9X) missiles and successfully intercepted a boosting rocket launched from the White Sands Missile Range, marking the first time a missile defense intercept was made from an air-based platform."

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show ... 6084.shtml

A quote from your link "It is of importance that our government continues to research, develop and test the boost-phase missile defense systems, for adding this layer can increase the effectiveness of the missile defense system as a whole and help take away today's threat of ballistic missiles and the future threat of ballistic missiles that may have multiple maneuverable warheads and sophisticated decoys."

"Air Force F-16 fighter launched two air-to-air (AIM-9X) missiles and successfully intercepted a boosting rocket launched from the White Sands Missile Range, marking the first time a missile defense intercept was made from an air-based platform. The two-stage air-to-air missiles have a new liquid propellant in their second stage rocket motor to provide the velocity necessary to intercept missiles in their initial boosting stage."

Shooting down a ballistic missile (ICBM) with a modified AIM 9X that has a two stage motor is hardly the same as a SAM being hit with an operational AIM 9X in battle.

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 20, 2005 Posts: 1035 Status: Offline

Magnum wrote:

How about we stop talking about how to defend against threats. A few of these posts have gotten danger close to talking classified and that's not information I want the enemy to have. Thank you.

Wow...lets see...nothing in this thread people havn't known for 20 years so I think were still okay. But I understand what your getting at.

I'm shocked to see two pages in this thread. If anyone has the illusion that it would be good to try to shoot down a SAM threat, thats all it is...an illusion. Or you saw a movie. Lets see...maneuver to get a kill shot on a SAM or do what your supposed to do...to save your @ss.

Now can we lock this thread yet? Asked & Answered.

-Check

Senior member Joined: Jul 01, 2007 Posts: 368

If in the given situation I'd be damn sure to try everything I had.

Enthusiast Joined: Sep 21, 2007 Posts: 37 Status: Offline

What about using a focused radar beam from an AESA radar to fry the SAM's onboard electronics?

LOL!

fighting SAm's with heat seekers? Im sure they would see a IR signature from a SAM but they are tipicaly much faster than heat seekers. It would be pointless to try shoot one down unless your flying straight into one wich would rather increase the odds of being hit than actualy fire the missile successfuly in time.

Remenber at mach 4+ all fighter airborne radars cant see anything so you would have to cue it visualy, its another limitation you have.

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AIM-9X as self-defense against SAMs ?