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dwightlooi
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Posted: Jun 02, 2007 - 04:10 AM
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Boeing Wins Next Phase of U.S. Air Force Missile Technology Program
ST. LOUIS, May 31, 2007 -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] has been awarded a $4.2 million U.S. Air Force contract for the next phase of the Dual Role Air Dominance Missile -- Technology (DRADM-T) program, one of several efforts to develop technologies for the Joint Dual Role Air Dominance Missile (JDRADM).
JDRADM is the first next-generation advanced missile intended to conduct both air-to-air and air-to-ground missions in a single weapon.
DRADM-T focuses on the missile's propulsion and control systems. Boeing was selected following a competitive six-month Phase 1 study effort. Phase 2 will refine the technologies and configuration, leading to laboratory and ground testing. Boeing's Advanced Weapons and Missile Systems unit, part of Boeing Advanced Systems, will perform the work in St. Charles, Mo. The contract runs for 32 months.
Keith Smith, Boeing program manager for JDRADM, said, "The selection of Boeing for Phase 2 of the DRADM-T program demonstrates our customer's confidence in Boeing to develop the key technologies that will make the future JDRADM weapon a reality."
In 2006, Boeing competed for and won the warhead technology thrust program -- Multi-Role Responsive Ordnance Kill Mechanism -- of the JDRADM weapon. Boeing is currently executing the program's Phase 2 design and development efforts.
http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2007/q2/070531a_nr.html |
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Posted: Nov 18, 2008 - 7:09 PM
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PhillyGuy
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Posted: Jun 02, 2007 - 03:11 AM
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Joined: Sep 29, 2006
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| Hey Dwight do you mind, if you can, listing some of the proposed features and capabilities of the future JDRADM missile? Thanks... |
_________________ "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."
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dwightlooi
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Posted: Jun 02, 2007 - 04:31 AM
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Joined: Aug 01, 2006
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PhillyGuy wrote:
Hey Dwight do you mind, if you can, listing some of the proposed features and capabilities of the future JDRADM missile? Thanks...
We don't know much at this point. In fact, the missile's actual physical design has not even been formerly drafted. At this stage they are doing two things -- mature a bunch of supporting technologies and depending on evolving technology and threat forecast draft a set of requirements for the missile. Only then will actual weapon design proceed. Full scale weapon system development is anticipated to begin ~2011. What we know is:-
(1) The JDRADM will be an AAM as well as a HARM.
(2) Advanced propulsion technology -- which includes the Dual Combustion Scramjet (DCR) engine, a 7" VFDR engine and advanced traditional rocket -- is being matured.
(3) Advanced vector and attitude control system(s) -- including multi-pulse lateral divert control thrusters, lateral exhaust jetting and traditional thrust vectoring -- is being matured.
(4) Advanced light weight airframe technology is being matured.
(5) Advanced seeker technology -- including seeker as fuse, multi-band seeker and high precision wide band passive receiver -- is being matured.
THe JDRADM will incorporate the technologies that looks like they'll work and which allows the right capability-cost-risk equation based on the studies and groundwork being done now. It will not incorporate all of the above. |
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playloud
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Posted: Jun 04, 2007 - 05:31 AM
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Enthusiast

Joined: Nov 13, 2006
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| If they can fit those in the Raptor's weapons bay (which is almost certainly a requirement), no radar system would be safe! |
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dwightlooi
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Posted: Jun 04, 2007 - 05:59 AM
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playloud wrote:
If they can fit those in the Raptor's weapons bay (which is almost certainly a requirement), no radar system would be safe!
I do not think that will be a challenge. The F-22's weapon bays hold three AMRAAMs each in a staggered fashion such that the fins of the missiles overlap those of the adjacent missiles. The AMRAAM is 7" in diameter with a 12.5" (actually 12.45") box section including fins. This means that the bays has room for ordnances at least 32" (2.75+7+2.75+7+2.75+7+2.75) across in total plus adequate clearances between multiple weapons.
More interesting will be a scenario where they end up increasing the diameter of the JDRADM beyond that of the AMRAAM They can do it as long as the box section of the new missile does not exceed about 10.6". With folding fins (ala ESSM) you can put three 10" missiles in the bay, each up to about 3.8 m long. A 10" JDRADM will have significantly increased range over the AMRAAM even without air breathing propulsion or radical lightening. It will also allow for a larger warhead yield which may be desirable if the missile is going to engage ground targets like SAM radars and the like. A 10" missile will be in the 600~700 lbs class (the ESSM is 620 lbs and it is only 10" 2/3 of the way with a 8" front section; the PAC-3 ERINT is a 10-incher which is 700 lbs but 5.2 m long). The F-22 will need a new ejector not the LAU-142/A. An F-35 will also require a beefier new ejector in the door position if it wants to carry it, the #4/8 "so called" A2G stations will have no problems however and it may in fact be easier to put two of 10" folding fin missiles on that position as no staggering is needed. |
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B.Smitty
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Posted: Jun 21, 2007 - 06:13 PM
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Newbie

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dwightlooi wrote:
playloud wrote:
If they can fit those in the Raptor's weapons bay (which is almost certainly a requirement), no radar system would be safe!
I do not think that will be a challenge. The F-22's weapon bays hold three AMRAAMs each in a staggered fashion such that the fins of the missiles overlap those of the adjacent missiles. The AMRAAM is 7" in diameter with a 12.5" (actually 12.45") box section including fins. This means that the bays has room for ordnances at least 32" (2.75+7+2.75+7+2.75+7+2.75) across in total plus adequate clearances between multiple weapons.
More interesting will be a scenario where they end up increasing the diameter of the JDRADM beyond that of the AMRAAM They can do it as long as the box section of the new missile does not exceed about 10.6". With folding fins (ala ESSM) you can put three 10" missiles in the bay, each up to about 3.8 m long. A 10" JDRADM will have significantly increased range over the AMRAAM even without air breathing propulsion or radical lightening. It will also allow for a larger warhead yield which may be desirable if the missile is going to engage ground targets like SAM radars and the like. A 10" missile will be in the 600~700 lbs class (the ESSM is 620 lbs and it is only 10" 2/3 of the way with a 8" front section; the PAC-3 ERINT is a 10-incher which is 700 lbs but 5.2 m long). The F-22 will need a new ejector not the LAU-142/A. An F-35 will also require a beefier new ejector in the door position if it wants to carry it, the #4/8 "so called" A2G stations will have no problems however and it may in fact be easier to put two of 10" folding fin missiles on that position as no staggering is needed.
I wonder if they have considered just using ESSM as a starting point for JDRADM? Raytheon appears to be doing a significant portion of the work needed to mate the AMRAAM seeker to ESSM as part of the SL-AMRAAM-ER project. And as you've said, an ESSM should fit in the same space as an AMRAAM in the F-22's bays.
It would be a significantly heavier solution. This would prevent it from carriage on some AAM-only stations on various aircraft.
Not ideal definitely, but might be far less costly than designing a new missile largely from scratch. It would also give you a lot more room for the warhead and ARM sensor (especially if you went to 10" diameter all the way). |
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dwightlooi
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Posted: Jun 22, 2007 - 05:22 PM
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Elite 1K

Joined: Aug 01, 2006
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B.Smitty wrote:
I wonder if they have considered just using ESSM as a starting point for JDRADM? Raytheon appears to be doing a significant portion of the work needed to mate the AMRAAM seeker to ESSM as part of the SL-AMRAAM-ER project. And as you've said, an ESSM should fit in the same space as an AMRAAM in the F-22's bays.
It would be a significantly heavier solution. This would prevent it from carriage on some AAM-only stations on various aircraft.
Not ideal definitely, but might be far less costly than designing a new missile largely from scratch. It would also give you a lot more room for the warhead and ARM sensor (especially if you went to 10" diameter all the way).
It would have been a stop gap measure of great promise. An AMRAAM seeker on the ESSM has been coined for quite a while under various monikers including "ASSM" -- Active Sea Sparrow Missile. The missile will fit in the same space as the AIM-120 on the F-22. On the F-35 the missile will be too heavy for the current door ejectors but two can be placed in the "A2G" stations -- perhaps even three if door ejector is left empty and a special rack is created to use the space. It may also be possible to uprate the door ejectors to 700 lbs (space is not the issue). Each missile will be about 620 lbs.
From a propellant fraction standpoint, the ESSM will be better than an AIM-54C which should give it considerable range. The ESSM however is an all-boost missile designed for fast response anti-missile roles. It goes from zero speed, zero altitude to Mach 4.2 in under 10 seconds with a range of 50km from a surface launch. In contrast an AIM-120A/B used in a zero-zero SLAMRAAM launch "only" goes Mach 2.5 and 12~24km. As an all-boost missile fired in a Mach 1.5~2 dash the ESSM is going to go ~Mach 6 which is faster than it needs to. In an AAM application, it may benefit from having the motor regrained as a boost sustain motor where it can trade speed for extended range. |
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sferrin
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Posted: Jun 24, 2007 - 04:51 PM
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Joined: Jul 22, 2005
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B.Smitty wrote:
I wonder if they have considered just using ESSM as a starting point for JDRADM? Raytheon appears to be doing a significant portion of the work needed to mate the AMRAAM seeker to ESSM as part of the SL-AMRAAM-ER project.
Interesting seeing how SLAMRAAM started with a 10" motor back in the early 90's (long before ESSM was even a dream) and then the bigger motor got dropped. |
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sferrin
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Posted: Jun 24, 2007 - 04:53 PM
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dwightlooi wrote:
It goes from zero speed, zero altitude to Mach 4.2 in under 10 seconds with a range of 50km from a surface launch.
where did you get this info? |
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dwightlooi
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Posted: Jun 24, 2007 - 07:26 PM
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sferrin wrote:
dwightlooi wrote:
It goes from zero speed, zero altitude to Mach 4.2 in under 10 seconds with a range of 50km from a surface launch.
where did you get this info?
The ESSM is a SAM. It is by definition launched from a zero-zero conidition.
Given that its #1 role is as an AShM interceptor, at 10 seconds it'll be at roughly 6~10km from the ship. It will make sense for the missile to reach its maximum velocity before that. All-boost motors also tend to expend their grain in <10 seconds.
Astronautix gave it's performance is given as Mach 4+ with a range of 27+ nm, citing the following sources:-
"World Naval Weapons Systems, 1997/98", Naval Institute Press, 1997
"Vision... Presence... Power, A Program Guide to The U.S. Navy", 2000 Edition |
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sferrin
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Posted: Jun 24, 2007 - 09:25 PM
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dwightlooi wrote:
sferrin wrote:
dwightlooi wrote:
It goes from zero speed, zero altitude to Mach 4.2 in under 10 seconds with a range of 50km from a surface launch.
where did you get this info?
The ESSM is a SAM. It is by definition launched from a zero-zero conidition.
Given that its #1 role is as an AShM interceptor, at 10 seconds it'll be at roughly 6~10km from the ship. It will make sense for the missile to reach its maximum velocity before that. All-boost motors also tend to expend their grain in <10 seconds.
Astronautix gave it's performance is given as Mach 4+ with a range of 27+ nm, citing the following sources:-
"World Naval Weapons Systems, 1997/98", Naval Institute Press, 1997
"Vision... Presence... Power, A Program Guide to The U.S. Navy", 2000 Edition
Great, more speculation  |
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