F-16 Reference
5th Gen Fighters
|
| Author |
Message |
|
Meathook
|
Posted: Feb 07, 2007 - 06:16 PM
|
|
|
Elite 2K

Joined: May 14, 2004
Posts: 2945
Location: Utah
|
|
Quote:
F-22 pilots, maintainers continue to mature understanding of new stealth jet
By Michael Sirak, Defense Daily - 02/07/2007
LANGLEY AFB, VA.--Airmen who fly and maintain the Air Force's newest fighter jet, the stealthy F-22A Raptor, say they are impressed with its capabilities and comparative ease of upkeep, and continue to learn more about the aircraft each day.
"From a pilot's point of view it is incredible to see the increase in technology," Capt. Brian Budde, an F-22 pilot in the 94th Fighter Squadron (F.S.), Langley's second combat-ready Raptor unit, said of the new aircraft during a meeting with reporters here late last month. "I feel very confident in its capabilities against any threat out there."
Budde is an experienced fighter pilot who transitioned to the Raptor after flying the most advanced version of the Air Force's F-15C Eagle--the active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar-equipped variant based at Elmendorf AFB, Alaska.
As capable as those Eagles are, he said he is learning that the Lockheed Martin [LMT]-built F-22 shines above them in areas like its ability to avoid detection by enemy radar.
"It takes a little bit of time to really trust in [the Raptor's] stealth because you are flying a big piece of metal out there against very capable radars," Budde said of his training in the jet. "You are getting closer [to the radars] than you are used to in the Eagle and you are saying, 'He's got to see me,' and yet he doesn't see you, and you learn to trust that and use that to your advantage to employ the jet in the way that it was designed."
Another advantage of flying in the F-22, Budde said, is the knowledge of the battlespace that the pilot readily gleans from the cockpit sensors.
"The incredible sensors that the jet has have been eye-opening,"
he said. "Immediately when you step into the jet, you have increased situational awareness."
Compared to the F-15 in which pilots have to look at several displays to understand their situation, Raptor fliers can rely on the central cockpit display, Budde said.
"Now I've got basically everything I need on one display," he said. "I can look at that one display now and get an overall picture of the 360 degrees around me and see what I need to do to execute tactically."
Budde also said the Raptor's engines are "incredibly powerful and reliable," enabling the aircraft to maintain supersonic cruising speeds without the need for afterburners. Pilots refer to flying without afterburners as operating on standard military power or "milpower."
Raptor pilots are cleared to fly the aircraft up to Mach 2.0 and altitudes up to 50,000 feet, he said.
"To be able to operate at those altitudes at milpower is not something I am used to in an Eagle," he said.
This combination of speed and altitude offers advantages when firing one of the F-22's complement of air-to-air missiles, such as Raytheon's [RTN] AIM-120 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM), against an opponent, he said.
"If I am at 50,000 feet and going Mach 2, that AMRAAM loves that.
It will go forever and it will give [the missile] increased endgame energy," he said.
Airmen keeping the F-22s ready for their missions say they are equally impressed with the aircraft to date and are refining the processes for how they service them as part of the normal maturation process of incorporating a new platform into the service's inventory.
Chief Master Sgt. Mark Wilder, who is in charge of maintenance on the Raptors of the 94th F.S., said the Raptors are holding up "as well as expected" overall thus far. Maintaining the aircraft's low- observable attributes remains a "labor intensive" activity but is comparatively easier than on the Air Force's earlier stealth platforms like the F-117 Nighthawk.
"These airplanes are outside all day long in the harshest of environments and they fare very well," Wilder said.
The Raptors are inspected each day for imperfections that could degrade their radar-evading skin, he said. If the damage, such as an abrasion, is deemed serious enough, restoration work on the outer mold line will be carried out immediately, he said. If not, the imperfections are carefully tracked and monitored until they cumulatively would make the aircraft non-mission-capable and therefore require restorative action.
Maintainers are finding that a desert environment is the most sparing on the Raptor, Wilder said, acknowledging that this may appear counterintuitive because this hot climate is often regarded as being quite harsh with its sand and dust.
"The airplanes perform better in the desert," he said. "A dry environment on an airplane is less corrosive. There is not a lot of moisture.
"If you want to compare, Tyndall [AFB] in Florida, where we fly our training jets is very corrosive and very hazardous to the airplanes' health," he continued. "I think we are probably mild here [at Langley] so the airplanes seem to perform better. And Edwards [AFB] in California or Nellis [AFB] near Las Vegas are much better. The airplanes do very well."
Maintainers like the aircraft's sophisticated health management system that automatically alerts when a component is failing or in need of replacement, said Wilder and Senior Airman Will Rotroff, a member of 94th F.S.' maintenance staff.
Rotroff said the use of Portable Maintenance Aid (PMA), essentially a portable computer, to interface with the aircraft's diagnostics system post flight, makes it much easier to determine what requires servicing.
"Right away, we hook up the PMA, and right away...we see what needs to be serviced and can service it right away," he told Defense Daily.
This obviates "having to troubleshoot for days," he said.
Wilder said the maintainers are still optimizing the health management system so that there are less false reports such as warning of a faulty fuel pump when the pump is in fact still good.
"That is a continual process," he said. "The onboard diagnostics...is a completely automated system that diagnoses down to the root cause failure. Yet because it is a new airplane...there is always fine tuning going on. We load filter files to the software on the airplane at least once a month."
Despite this activity and additional refinements, Wilder said the F-22s are definitely ready for combat, as evidenced by the Raptor's participation in last year's Northern Edge exercise in Alaska.
"If you can take this airplane to Elmendorf [AFB] like we did this past summer and kick the living snot out of everything, even when there are system flaws, then that is most definitely combat capable."
In fact, he said, "That is awe-inspiring."
Twelve F-22s from the 94th Fighter Squadrons' sister unit, the 27th F.S., were scheduled to deploy yesterday and today to Kadena Air Base on island of Okinawa, Japan for a three-to-four month stint. This is the first-ever overseas combat deployment of the Raptor.
Meanwhile, the 94 F.S. is preparing to send 14 Raptors to Nellis AFB, Nev., to participate in upcoming Red Flag air combat exercises.
This will be this unit's first large-scale exercise. Later this year, the 94th F.S. will be eligible for combat deployment under the service's Air and Space Expeditionary Force rotations.
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Sponsor
|
Posted: Nov 18, 2008 - 7:03 PM
|
|
|
F-16.net Sponsor
|
|
|
|
 |
|
sferrin
|
Posted: Feb 07, 2007 - 09:18 PM
|
|
|
Elite 1K

Joined: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 1088
Status: Offline
|
"Raptor pilots are cleared to fly the aircraft up to Mach 2.0 and altitudes up to 50,000 feet, he said.
"To be able to operate at those altitudes at milpower is not something I am used to in an Eagle," he said. " |
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
idesof
|
Posted: Feb 07, 2007 - 09:58 PM
|
|
|
Forum Veteran

Joined: May 29, 2006
Posts: 640
Status: Offline
|
|
sferrin wrote:
"Raptor pilots are cleared to fly the aircraft up to Mach 2.0 and altitudes up to 50,000 feet, he said.
"To be able to operate at those altitudes at milpower is not something I am used to in an Eagle," he said. "
Yeah, I noticed that too. Once again, a clear indication, from yet another of its pilots, that this beast cruises at Mach 2... |
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
lamoey
|
Posted: Feb 07, 2007 - 10:34 PM
|
|
|
Senior member

Joined: Apr 25, 2004
Posts: 396
Status: Offline
|
|
idesof wrote:
sferrin wrote:
"Raptor pilots are cleared to fly the aircraft up to Mach 2.0 and altitudes up to 50,000 feet, he said.
"To be able to operate at those altitudes at milpower is not something I am used to in an Eagle," he said. "
Yeah, I noticed that too. Once again, a clear indication, from yet another of its pilots, that this beast cruises at Mach 2...
He never said he was at mil power at Mach 2.0, only at 50,000 ft, so your reading more into it than what he actually stated. |
_________________ Former Flight Control Technican - We keep'em flying
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Meathook
|
Posted: Feb 07, 2007 - 10:57 PM
|
|
|
Elite 2K

Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 2945
Location: Utah
|
Good point.....
Raptor pilots are cleared to fly the aircraft up to Mach 2.0 and altitudes up to 50,000 feet, he said. |
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Raptor_One
|
Posted: Feb 07, 2007 - 11:11 PM
|
|
|
Elite 1K

Joined: Aug 19, 2004
Posts: 1092
|
| Correct... flying at 50,000 ft at MIL power in an F-16 or F-15 wouldn't be a pleasant experience. You'd be struggling to gain energy and your maneuverability would be severely limited. You really can't do much at 50,000 ft except fly... and not that fast either (in MIL power). The ability to operate effectively in a combat environment at 50,000 ft in MIL power is very impressive. Going supersonic that high up without AB is also very impressive. |
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
LinkF16SimDude
|
Posted: Feb 08, 2007 - 01:50 PM
|
|
|
Elite 1K

Joined: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 1561
Status: Offline
|
| Where the Viper's concerned, you could plug the blower in at 50K but prolly wouldn't get much past stage 2 or 3 I should think. And even then, not much power generated that high up. |
_________________ Why does "monosyllabic" have 5 syllables?
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Biggles4
|
Posted: Feb 08, 2007 - 03:43 PM
|
|
|
Newbie

Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 3
Status: Offline
|
|
Quote:
Budde also said the Raptor's engines are "incredibly powerful and reliable," enabling the aircraft to maintain supersonic cruising speeds without the need for afterburners. Pilots refer to flying without afterburners as operating on standard military power or "milpower."
Raptor pilots are cleared to fly the aircraft up to Mach 2.0 and altitudes up to 50,000 feet, he said.
"To be able to operate at those altitudes at milpower is not something I am used to in an Eagle," he said.
It depends how you read this statement. It is a little ambiguous. If he has said;
"To be able to operate at those altitudes and speeds at milpower is not something...."
Then his meaning would have been clear and we would know that this pilot was reporting that he could supercuise at M2.0 and 50,000ft. However, that does seem to be the gist of it. Given the context supplied by his first sentence, we are entitled to take this as the implied meaning for his second sentence.
There have been much anecdotal evidence like this from pilots of Raptors who have implied that the Raptor can cruise at M2.0 without actually saying so in so many words. The only definitive statements about maximum cruise speed, as far as I know, are M1.78, or possibly M1.9 although that is less certain.
The Typhoon camp are now trumpeting the newly discovered capability of their aircraft to cruise at M1.5 with half a fuel load, no weapons and no drop tanks. If we compare the much higher cruise speeds for the Raptor when fully loaded with weapons and fuel which seems to be nudging M2.0, then it is a fairly safe assumption that with half a fuel load and perhaps 4 amraams expended the Raptor could easily reach Mach 2.0 in milpower. |
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
lamoey
|
Posted: Feb 08, 2007 - 03:53 PM
|
|
|
Senior member

Joined: Apr 25, 2004
Posts: 396
Status: Offline
|
Seen the poster behind special agent Molder's desk?
"I want to belive" |
_________________ Former Flight Control Technican - We keep'em flying
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Meathook
|
Posted: Feb 08, 2007 - 03:57 PM
|
|
|
Elite 2K

Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 2945
Location: Utah
|
|
|
|
 |
|
checksixx
|
Posted: Feb 08, 2007 - 04:40 PM
|
|
|
Elite 1K

Joined: Jul 20, 2005
Posts: 1035
Status: Offline
|
| Lockheed Martin published a confirmed unclassified supercruise speed of 1.78 Mach....I would venture that the actual number was 'tuned' down for public consumption as that is usually how its done. I asked a pilot on the flightline once how fast it was and he said, "I know you've got a clearance but you don't need to know...well put it this way, I've supercruised in this thing at the highest speed I've ever personally took the '15." That says a lot for the jet...Check |
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Meathook
|
Posted: Feb 08, 2007 - 04:42 PM
|
|
|
Elite 2K

Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 2945
Location: Utah
|
|
|
|
 |
|
idesof
|
Posted: Feb 08, 2007 - 11:24 PM
|
|
|
Forum Veteran

Joined: May 29, 2006
Posts: 640
Status: Offline
|
|
checksixx wrote:
Lockheed Martin published a confirmed unclassified supercruise speed of 1.78 Mach....I would venture that the actual number was 'tuned' down for public consumption as that is usually how its done. I asked a pilot on the flightline once how fast it was and he said, "I know you've got a clearance but you don't need to know...well put it this way, I've supercruised in this thing at the highest speed I've ever personally took the '15." That says a lot for the jet...Check
A few months back there was a looooong thread going back and forth between those who maintained, like me, that the Raptor's cruise speed is Mach 2 or thereabouts and those who simply refused to accept it for lack of evidence. No one can say for sure, of course, who hasn't actually flown the thing. And those who have, seem to be consistently saying that the cruise speed is greater than that which has been published. But, who knows, right? Seeing as how we seem to have spies among us, we should probably not even be discussing this...  |
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Raptor_One
|
Posted: Feb 08, 2007 - 11:25 PM
|
|
|
Elite 1K

Joined: Aug 19, 2004
Posts: 1092
|
|
checksixx wrote:
Lockheed Martin published a confirmed unclassified supercruise speed of 1.78 Mach....I would venture that the actual number was 'tuned' down for public consumption as that is usually how its done. I asked a pilot on the flightline once how fast it was and he said, "I know you've got a clearance but you don't need to know...well put it this way, I've supercruised in this thing at the highest speed I've ever personally took the '15." That says a lot for the jet...Check
I used to chat with a former F-15C pilot who pointed out how rare it was for ANY Eagle driver to get above Mach 2.0, let alone the jet's maximum speed of approximately Mach 2.5. This is because the F-15C almost never flies in a clean configuration. Even in the rare cases it does, the pilot will almost never have an excuse to do Mach 2+. It's entirely possible this F-15 pilot you spoke to never got his jet above Mach 2. It's even possible he never got above Mach 1.78. Seriously... why would an F-15 need to go that fast? There are only a few special situations that would necessitate reaching such high speeds... even in wartime. |
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
checksixx
|
Posted: Feb 09, 2007 - 02:05 AM
|
|
|
Elite 1K

Joined: Jul 20, 2005
Posts: 1035
Status: Offline
|
| Yeah I'm aware of that point Raptor One...His wording made it seem that he'd had the F-15 pretty fast before, but your point is noteworthy...Check |
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|