Forum: Air Force Life

Check this out, man - o - man...go girl!

Stars and Stripes wrote:

Female Airman Punished for Threesome
By Scott Schonauer, May 24, 2007

SPANGDAHLEM AIR BASE, Germany — A Spangdahlem-based airman was sentenced Monday to four months confinement for her part in a sexual act with two other airmen.

Airman 1st Class Ashley N. Rains pleaded guilty at a court-martial to two indecent acts charges.

She had faced rape and sodomy charges but admitted to the lesser charges as part of a plea deal.

Judge (Col.) Gordon Hammock also sentenced Rains, 22, an aircrew life support specialist with the 22nd Fighter Squadron, to reduction to the lowest pay grade.

She faced a maximum sentence that included as many as 10 years in a military prison, but Air Force prosecutors argued for a lighter sentence of two years.

The alcohol-induced menage a trois on Sept. 24 in Bitburg included a male airman and a female staff sergeant.

But both prosecution and defense lawyers debated whether it was consensual among the three.

Rains and Airman Christopher D. Hicks are the only airmen charged in the incident because the Air Force lawyers said the staff sergeant was too drunk to give consent.

Air Force prosecutor Capt. Mike Felsen said the staff sergeant “appeared drunk” and slipped “in and out of consciousness” while Rains and Hicks performed sexual acts with her.

Felsen argued the staff sergeant, who did not testify during the trial, was vulnerable and Rains and Hicks took advantage of her.

But Rains’ defense attorney, Capt. Matthew King, called the incident a situation involving three consenting adults with “various degrees of intoxication.”

King argued that Rains shouldn’t go to jail for what amounts to a drunken threesome.

“Does she really have to go to jail for this?” he asked.

The Air Force had charged Rains with rape and sodomy, but prosecutors could not prove the more serious charges, King added, therefore, the question of consent isn’t relevant in Rains’ case.

Rains said she was embarrassed by the episode.

“I’ve learned from this mistake,” she said during a statement she read at the trial.

Hicks faces more serious charges.

The airman, who is assigned to the 52nd Civil Engineer Squadron, has been charged with rape and sodomy and will face a court-martial at Spangdahlem Air Base on May 30.

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Well, I know about the civilian vs. military differences in the law and that this happens multiple times every night here in Las Vegas (no, not by personal experience, but there's still hope Thumb

!) between civilians.

While I hope that all involved have learned from this incident and that they can somehow recover from it, they know the UCMJ and the consequences. I understand about the intoxication part, but that's where the good judgement comes in - don't get so drunk. And yes, I do know about the negative side of that one from experience and feel I can speak about it with authority.

Sad to see this happen to these people's careers.

If there consenting adults, who cares?

But if someone was forced or raped, then that is a whole different story, in any event ...WoW

I did not think I would ever read about this but "work hard, play hard" (no pun intended), I know it happens but if no crime was committed, then let them play I say but the whole story is not listed either I am sure Embarassed

Meathook,

I can agree with you most of the way. My only problem is that this violated the UCMJ. There may have been no civilian crime committed, but the military's a whole different world which these people entered into as adults with full understanding.

I know but sometimes (and I fully understand having lived it for twenty-six years myself) basically but people are people (not puppets), enjoying life, having intercourse amongst themselves...maybe the military controlling that activity goes too far, not sure, I still have feelings both ways on it.

As long as no one is hurt, whats wrong with enjoying yourself (if you want that kind of thing, I am not saying I do, but freedom of choice in this matter is a whole different debate I guess).

What these folks did in the privacy of their lives should stay private, However if a crime (forced act was committed, then it was wrong) I have no argument with being lawful, breaking the law, another matter.

So there was a threesome, is that wrong, I guess I never heard that was unlawful, just wishful thinking I guess for some.

But I hear you...just hard to condemn it if all agreed and if no one was hurt, I say, give it a go, but it appears it was not all fun and games, it got out of hand...that is a separate issue for me (forced acts like this...etc, can not be lawful) therefore I am against it but I am sure this is not an isolated event these days. I am just trying to consider both sides.

Sounds about right- the NCO gets a slap on the wrist, at best. The female airman gets a moderate punishment, and I'm sure we'll see that the male airman is going to get slammed. Maybe I'm just a little too cynical...

no...I think you might have nailed it, always happens that way doesn't it...least it did in my day

interesting case, for National Enquirer, but what's it doing on this forum? Don't think I saw any words about airplanes in it at all...

Lamoey, You are 100% correct. This is internet trash from the often near-National Enquirer standard of the Stars and Stripes.
F-16.net can usually do much better than this! WTF

It is in the "Air Force Life" category of the forum... Why ban it? Evil or Very Mad

I have a big feeling there is more info on this that isn't being released. How did anyone find out about it in the first place? Was there video? Any of them married?

Enthusiast Joined: Jan 28, 2006 - 10:52 AM Posts: 57

I may have to take a field trip!

lamoey wrote:

interesting case, for National Enquirer, but what's it doing on this forum? Don't think I saw any words about airplanes in it at all...

I can see your sentiment but as it has been posted in the 'Air Force Life' forum and isn't against any of the <a href="guidelines.html">Forum Guidelines</a>, I will leave the topic on here for now.

Forum Veteran Joined: Dec 15, 2006 - 12:28 AM Posts: 760

Meathook wrote:

If there consenting adults, who cares?.... I know it happens but if no crime was committed

It is not a case of consenting adults. Even if someone technically gives their consent it still can be statutory rape. Anyone that doesn't have the proper mental capacity cannot give legal consent in many cases. A person that is, a minor, drunk, under the influence of drugs, unconscious, mentally ill, mentally retarded, or any form of reduced mental capacity often cannot give legal consent.

If you someone is under the influence of alcohol or a drug micky, ecstasy, rohypnol, ect…. it is often considered rape even if someone gives technical consent.

Perhaps you missed the part about the staff Sergeant slipping in and out of consciousness during the s@x. That is rape, someone in that condition cannot legally give consent (in most places. Even in places that it may be legal by civilian law, it is still a violation of morality and military conduct).

Even if someone gives consent it can be conditional or retractable. If someone gives consent to s@x, that does not give the partner the right to use forcible sodomy.

Meathook wrote:

As long as no one is hurt, whats wrong with enjoying yourself

Who says no one was hurt? I think it's kind of selfish to say no one was hurt under circumstances like this. It is obvious that this case has besmirched the military and the US image.

Meathook wrote:

What these folks did in the privacy of their lives should stay private

It obviously isn't in privacy. Hello, it's in the news.

It's not that I'm against s@x, it's just when you have s@x you should do it reasonably morally (responsibly) and discreetly.

You ever hear of rules against fraternization or PDA (public displays of affection)?

Some of these rules may seem silly, however they are very important when it comes to the public image of the military, diplomacy, public-relations, morale, and dissent amongst the ranks.

How would you feel if you were deployed on a desert island with nothing but a bunch of men (without even seen a woman for over a year), and someone’s wife or girlfriend arrives in a yacht and they start ramming tongs down each other's throats and disappear off to the yacht? That kind of thing can screw up morale and cause dissent among the ranks. It wouldn't be against the rules if it hasn't happened before and caused problems.

Like they say discretion is the better part of valor. A person should have the discretion not to have s@x with someone who is in no condition to give consent.

Another part of discretion is that, even if all involved were in condition to give consent the s@x should happen behind closed doors and it should stay that way.

People often assume it happened behind closed doors. In this case we don't even know that that is the case. It's clear that if it did it did not stay that way. Just because you do something in private doesn't mean it is appropriate to parade your conquests in public. It is very possible that this prosecution was started because they started s@xually harassing the staff Sergeant. It is very possible that this prosecution was started because it was grading a morale problem and screwing up work productivity and put the military in a position of liability for sexual-harassment.

If that was the case then the military had no real choice except to prosecute.

Scenario: What would you think if you win out with the guys and a girl and you gave consent to have s@x. However that consent was taken as a blanket consent by the other guys and you find out the next day that not only did you have s@x with a woman but all the other men involved? How would you feel if they started s@xually harassing you? I guess you would be okay if you had to live the rest of your life with @nal fissures because a bunch of guys took advantage of you when you were drunk?

Meathook wrote:

So there was a threesome, is that wrong

In many cases it would be a violation of law as sodomy. Have you not heard of sodomy laws?

VPRGUY wrote:

Sounds about right- the NCO gets a slap on the wrist, at best. The female airman gets a moderate punishment, and I'm sure we'll see that the male airman is going to get slammed. Maybe I'm just a little too cynical...

That is a stereotype. Unfortunately it is often the case. So I am also cynical.

akruse21 wrote:

I have a big feeling there is more info on this that isn't being released. How did anyone find out about it in the first place? Was there video? Any of them married?

You're probably right.

If this was done in private like some people are claiming how come it is public now?

It sounds like the staff Sergeant that was raped, was probably in a blackout. What happened probably only came to light after she started investigating what happened during her blackout or more likely that she started investigating after she was s@xually harassed about what had happened.

==========

In my opinion they seem to be getting off light. This is a similar case of a predator that would drug women, videotape them while raping them.

Max Factor Heir Andrew Luster is on trial on 87 criminal counts including sexual battery and poisoning, put up most of the $1-million bail himself, lives alone at the beach, made videotapes of s@xual intercourse with allegedly drugged women and at 39 years of age faces spending the rest of his life in prison, if convicted

Worldwide Hunt For Max Factor Heir
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/01/ ... 7471.shtml

Max Factor Heir Andrew Luster wrote:

"That's exactly what I like in my room: A passed-out beautiful girl."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/ ... arch_story

This case also got additional publicity when “dog” the bounty hunter captured this fugitive illegally in Mexico.

Andrew Luster: Caught
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/ ... 1069.shtml

Congressmen Back Bounty Hunter
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/ ... 0947.shtml

This thread is useless without pics.... Wink