Forum: Technology

Helo Friends,

In a fighter aircraft, what all has to be done while installing an aerial refueling system(drogue and probe type), on aircraft fuel system or flight control system or any other aircraft system.

Thanks

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Not quite sure what you mean - is this for the sending aircraft or receiving aircraft? I recall reading about a system with a modified external fuel tank which had the probe so that all you need to enable probe and drogue refueling was to install the tank.

Likewise, I seem to recall that the S-3 Viking in the US Navy was equipped with a modified fuel tank pod which housed the hose and drogue which could be reeled out.

Elite 1K Joined: May 26, 2005 - 08:39 PM Posts: 1496

There was also the KA-6 variant of the Intruder. The S-3 is scheduled for retirement in 2009( ? ) so the only thing the Navy will have left for mission tanking will be Super Hornets.

Yep, I remember the KA-6 Smile

. That jet had the in flight refueling equipment installed internally if I remember right.

With the S-3 going away, I wonder how they'll outfit the SH for ASW?

Are you talking about the considerations made before or during design (as where or what type it will be and where to install it)?

You taking about the IFR (Inflight Refueling) Internal or External components and there location with regards to there general layout within the aircraft or what?

Could you be a bit more specific, sorry the question has me wondering what you are really referring too or what it is your asking (I am confused)...can you expand upon it a bit, you will get better replies if you do (I am sure).

Thanks

parrothead wrote:

Yep, I remember the KA-6 Smile

. That jet had the in flight refueling equipment installed internally if I remember right.

With the S-3 going away, I wonder how they'll outfit the SH for ASW?

Will ASW work be left to helicopters I wonder. Fast jets are not suitable for ASW. You need something low and slow with endurance Smile

I am sorry for being vague. Let me try explaining my querry. If I have to modify a fighter aircraft for inflight refueling, then I must install a probe(for a drogue and probe system). Following this existing aircraft fuel system must be modified to receive this high pressure fuel maintaining CG. If aircraft is fly-by-wire then the flight control system software must be reprogrammed. So basically my question is regarding modification considerations on aircraft systems other then structural changes/mods. I hope I have been able to express.

I think you'd best be served by contacting the technichal representative for the aircraft manufacturer. It is highly dependent on the aircraft in question, as well - you wouldn't do the same thing for a MiG-29 that you would for an Su-27 Wink

.Even if several people here know bits of the information, putting it all together would take much more than an internet forum can provide.

Exactly, depending on the aircraft type, body design and available space for added components, there is no easy overall answer to this question as Parrothead as indicated. Most cases are do-able but might require structural modifications, rerouting of lines, CG considerations as you mentioned and many more issues. I am with the above poster, is this was a real event being considered, I,d contact the manufacture or sub-contractor authorized to make such modifications....not like fixing a car on your own, thats for sure.

Sorry I cant be much more help then that but this is will take drawing, blueprints, engineering efforts, the list goes on.

Don`t know how it`s done technically, but here is a picture of a Hornet with four tanks and the Buddy pack containing the drogue on a centre-line station...

Sorry to hi-jack this thread but I saw this refuelling clip accident, no-one gets hurt, but what exactly happened? Someone blames the refuelling crew but I don`t understand why?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNDfxZacTQY

I would not blame maintenance for that, your not suggesting that are you? Looks to me as if the pilot first undershoot, then overshoot then the basket caved under the load...that was just an accident and a mistake on the pilots part. IFR is really not that easy, many make it look easy (especially using the basket) but it is dangerous, the pilot is lucky he was able to break away and not FOD his engine or the tanker not get into trouble (flying wise, sparks, flames etc could have occurred).

This was actually lucky in my opinion, it could have been much worst and this type of thing has and will happen again. The basket will extend so far, then the pilot should fly into it, kind of working as a team, but as you saw, the fighter powered up too much on the last attempt, causing the basket (once engaged) to break away as it should have under that extreme load...worked as it should for this type of emergency.

I saw an F14 (video) do the same thing once, the basket broke free and the F14 engine stalled (flameout due to all that fuel going down the inlet) the F14 shut that engine down and made it home but I was told, the basket is designed to breakaway in situations like this.

If there was a fault, I would say pilot error but there are too many other factors, speed, wind, etc ....that could have contributed to this event.

Accident....fault if any...maybe "aircrew" but it happens, no one will really be blamed but there will be more training ahead for all...no doubt about it!

I wouldn't think too much would have to be done as far as reprogramming flight controls, etc- the hardest part would probably be the wiring and radio/intercom mods to allow the tanker to talk to the reciever. Fuel routing, all you really have to do is install lines that take the fuel from the IFR receptical to the single-point refueling manifold, and the airplane "thinks" it is being refueled just like it is on the ground. The system is designed to fill the tanks in a certain sequence, which is usually the same sequence that they're burned from. Ta-da, balance problem solved Smile

There are a couple of boomers running around here that could verify this, but I think the tanker can actually vary the fuel pressure, and certainly fuel flow, to suit the aircraft being gassed. Just imagine- trying to fill an F-16 at the same pressures and flow rates that you'd use on a B-52 or C-5......instant expensive chaff!!!!

Quote:

This was actually lucky in my opinion, it could have been much worst and this type of thing has and will happen again.

I'm sure many of you have seen the video of the MH-53 gassing off an MC-130, and the -53 chops the refueling hose with its rotor- and both aircraft flew on home. I'll have to see if I can find and link it, if someone else doesn't beat me to it.

Thanks Meathook. There were a couple of comments made on Youtube that maybe the tanker operators messed up, not my personal judgement.

The AMX pilot looked like he had his hands full to me. It must be bloody difficult IFR-ing, most of those guys make it look easy! Must be a bitch in the pitch black of night out over an ocean.

VPRGUY, you knew this was gonna happen Wink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2fSjHghubc MH -53 accident.

Forum: Technology

Aerial refuelling system