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Document title: No inside release handle... - F-16.net - The Ultimate F-16 Reference
Original URL: http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-8252-view-previous-sid-61946db5c649926437e41e6307660001.html
Printed on: 18 November 2008

Forum: F-22A Raptor

No inside release handle...



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Meathook
PostPosted: May 22, 2007 - 12:37 AM Reply with quote Back to top
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Now I understand this might be old information to some of you, if so, I'm sorry to repeat it but for those of you that it is new information too (like me), then I am sure you will be as surprised as me to hear, if the computer fails, the pilot cant let himself out.

That sucks royal in my opinion, what a design flaw that is, I find it hard to believe no one thought of that, what a damn shame if they did and choose not to have one anyway.

All that money and time spent designing and no one thought of this pilot letting himself out...amazing (shameful too in my opinion).

This is a good one. I suppose there were thousands of engineers and managers at the Requirements, Preliminary & Critical Design Reviews, not to mention years of tests on the ground and in the air, plus the Production Readiness Reviews, but no one noticed there isn't a manual door handle inside?

Trapped in an F-22

"You've got to be kidding me….

there must be a handle in here somewhere!"

Quote:
The Self-Locking F-22

By Robert Bryce

Last week, Lockheed Martin announced that its profits were up a hefty 60 percent in the first quarter. The company earned $591 million in profit on revenues of $9.2 billion. Now, if the company could just figure out how to put a door handle on its new $361 million F-22 fighter, its prospects would really soar.

On April 10, at Langley Air Force Base, an F-22 pilot, Capt. Brad Spears, was locked inside the cockpit of his aircraft for five hours. No one in the U.S. Air Force or from Lockheed Martin could figure out how to open the aircraft's canopy. At about 1:15 pm , chainsaw-wielding firefighters from the 1st Fighter Wing finally extracted Spears after they cut through the F-22's three-quarter inch-thick polycarbonate canopy.

Total damage to the airplane, according to sources inside the Pentagon: $1.28 million. Not only did the firefighters ruin the canopy, which cost $286,000, they also scuffed the coating on the airplane's skin which will cost about $1 million to replace.


The Pentagon currently plans to buy 181 copies of the F-22 from Lockheed Martin, the world's biggest weapons vendor. The total price tag : $65.4 billion.

The incident at Langley has many Pentagon watchers shaking their heads. Tom Christie, the former director of testing and evaluation for the DOD, calls the F-22 incident at Langley "incredible." "God knows what'll happen next," said Christie, who points out that the F-22 has about two million lines of code in its software system. "This thing is so software intensive. You can't check out every line of code."

Now, just for the sake of comparison, Windows XP, one of the most common computer operating systems, contains about 45 million lines of code. But if any of that code fails, then the computer that's running it simply stops working. It won't cause that computer to fall out of the sky. If any of the F-22's two million lines of computer code go bad, then the pilot can die, or, perhaps, just get trapped in the cockpit.

One analyst inside the Pentagon who has followed the F-22 for years said that "Everyone's incredulous. They're asking can this really have happened?" As for Lockheed Martin, the source said, "Whatever the problem was, the people who built it should know how to open the canopy."

Given that the U.S. military is Lockheed Martin's biggest client, perhaps the company could provide the Air Force with a supply of slim jims or coat hangers, just in case another F-22 pilot gets stuck at the controls.

As if the latest canopy shenanigans weren't bad enough, on May 1, Defense News reported that there are serious structural problems with the F-22. Seems the titanium hull of the aircraft isn't meshing as well as it should. Naturally, taxpayers have to foot the bill for the mistake (improper heat-treating of the titanium) which is found on 90 aircraft. The cost of repairing those wrinkles? Another $1 billion or so.

Lockheed Martin's F-22 spokesman, Joe Quimby, did not return telephone calls.



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Meathook
PostPosted: May 21, 2007 - 11:09 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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RoAF - I just found your article depicting this problem from last year, amazing this happen back in Feb 2006.

Sorry I posted it here too, I did not go back far enough to see if this had been discussed before but you nailed this issue over a year ago - good on ya but I hear the problem still exists today...sadly (I would not have posted it if I knew you had already covered it)...I apologize, your story first my man and a damn good one Embarassed

Sorry if I resurfaced your old trend but what an amazingly sad story
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checksixx
PostPosted: May 22, 2007 - 02:40 AM Reply with quote Back to top
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Reposted with incorrect information still...thats the shame here. The canopy was $80,000.00......total damage was under $140,000.00

The mechanism that secures/locks the canopy in place would not unlock from the securing points which are visible in the photo.



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Meathook
PostPosted: May 22, 2007 - 03:00 AM Reply with quote Back to top
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Is there an an internal unlocking mechanism?
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parrothead
PostPosted: May 22, 2007 - 02:50 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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Meathook,

Not sure about whether or not there's an internal unlocking mechanism, but the seat is zero/zero for those aircraft on fire incidents Wink . Of course, I'd want to make sure my Raptor's outside the hangar when I mount up just in case...

Even if there had been in internal handle, it would not have mattered in the incident above where the canopy was cut. The Air Force worked for about five hours with Lockheed Martin trying everything from everywhere to no avail. The investigation following the incident found that several screws had backed out of their holes slightly, blocking the mechanism.

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checksixx
PostPosted: May 22, 2007 - 08:10 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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Thanks parrothead...I forgot what the actual cause was when I replied earlier. Either way, the pilot was not in an emergency situation, so using the canopy jettison or ejecting would have caused WAAAAY more damage than just cutting him out.
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Meathook
PostPosted: May 22, 2007 - 08:58 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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Cool...things happen, I guess that is why they made that bumper sticker - thanks guys
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Lieven
PostPosted: May 22, 2007 - 10:06 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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Just for additional reading, note that we have reported on this incident in:
  • <a href="news_article1768.html">Pilot trapped in F-22 cockpit after canopy failure</a> (April 25, 2006)
  • <a href="news_article1815.html">Stuck F-22 canopy caused by loose screws</a> (May 26, 2006)

It has also been discussed in the thread:
  • <a href="http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-5251.html">Chainsaw and the Raptor</a>


Some of the associated photos were:

The pilot of F-22 03-041 on April 10, 2006 awaiting rescue from the cockpit.


Tape lines have been added to the canopy of F-22 03-041 to guide rescuers in cutting the canopy to free the trapped pilot.


Debris littered the cockpit of F-22 Raptor 03-041 after maintence personnel were forced to cut the canopy to free the trapped pilot.


Rescuers were forced to cut the canopy on F-22 03-041 to extract the pilot after the canopy failed to open by any other means.


Rescuers extract the pilot of F-22A Raptor 03-4041 after cutting the canopy. The canopy was only cut as a last resort after all other options were exhausted.


Debris littered the cockpit of F-22 Raptor 03-041 after maintenance personnel were forced to cut the canopy to free the trapped pilot.


Debris littered the cockpit of F-22 Raptor 03-041 after maintence personnel were forced to cut the canopy to free the trapped pilot.


Last edited by Lieven on May 23, 2007 - 07:23 PM; edited 1 time in total
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idesof
PostPosted: May 22, 2007 - 11:13 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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Yep, yet more evidence of LM's tremendous engineering prowess. And still their profits shoot through the roof.
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checksixx
PostPosted: May 22, 2007 - 11:21 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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For a new aircraft, its had relative few problems and only one crash. I'd still say its enjoying a good track record.
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idesof
PostPosted: May 22, 2007 - 11:36 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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Here's a dumb question: does the Pentagon ever buy weapons under warranty? One constantly reads about incidents like that above and various design flaws (such as with the Super Crapper, I mean Super Hornet) where it costs the Armed Forces millions if not billions of dollars to fix, with obviously the taxpayer footing the bill. Now, if in the case of the Super Bug and the above-mentioned incident, if it's an engineering issue or a manufacturing defect, why if it's a contractor's mess up do taxpayers have to pay for their incompetence and/or carelessness?

If military contractors are truly part of the private sector, and are not to be regarded as the beneficiaries of corporate welfare, why don't these companies play by private sector rules when it comes to the products they deliver to the end user, namely the Armed Forces?

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Meathook
PostPosted: May 23, 2007 - 12:02 AM Reply with quote Back to top
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Roscoe
PostPosted: May 23, 2007 - 12:02 AM Reply with quote Back to top
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Officially, the government is self insured. Means we pay for accidents. As for warranty, (IIRC) if a design flaw is identified that somehow got past the myriads of design reviews, then there is often non-$$ compensation gleaned from the contractor. Example might be engineering drawings we did not originally pay for.

However, the key is that virtually no part of the airplane is designed without a government guy reviewing it and signing off on it. Makes it hard to blame the contractor. Now, does the guy know what he is approving? Usually, but not always...

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habu2
PostPosted: May 23, 2007 - 12:06 AM Reply with quote Back to top
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Wow. Just wow. Idesof, you must think Lockheed is just be oozing corruption. Oh, wait....

You want your money back for FEMA's F-ups after Katrina?

You want your money back after KBR's waste in Iraq?

You want your money back from all those defaulted student loans? Fanny Mae foreclosures?

You want your federal bailout money back from American Airlines after they turned record profits last year?

I could go on.....

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dwightlooi
PostPosted: May 23, 2007 - 02:51 AM Reply with quote Back to top
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I would think that most ejection systems are 2-staged. That is it is usually possible to jettison the canopy explosively without actually firing the ejection seat subsequent to that.
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