F-16.net

Printed from: F-16.net - The Ultimate F-16 Reference [http://www.f-16.net]
Document title: F-35 "brake problem" - 03 May 2007 - F-16.net - The Ultimate F-16 Reference
Original URL: http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-8137-start-15-sid-c330297e5e96cdc2073ebefea6edde79.html
Printed on: 13 October 2008

Forum: F-35 Lightning II

F-35 "brake problem" - 03 May 2007



Search Search  Register Register  Log in to check your private messages Log in to check your private messages
guidelines Forum Guidelines
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Author Message
dwightlooi
PostPosted: May 08, 2007 - 10:19 PM Reply with quote Back to top
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran


Joined: Aug 02, 2006
Posts: 958

Status: Offline
Scorpion1alpha wrote:
MKopack wrote:
idesof wrote:
Well, so much for its vaunted reliability. Any clue about the nature of the malfunction and whether it has gone back up again?


Vaunted reliability? Wow, with this 'electrical issue' and you're ready to write the whole thing off? How much time have you spent on a flightline? What do you think the ratio of Code 2 & 3's is to Code 1's?


Apparently he is. Rolling Eyes And in regards to the flightline, I betting a big donut.


We don't know how "serious" the problem is. It may be something minor enough that the aircraft will fly just fine other than a a little warning light coming on in the cockpit saying that some circuit monitoring system is reading out of the normal range.
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
Sponsor
New postPosted: Oct 13, 2008 - 8:27 PM Back to top
F-16.net Sponsor






This message from our sponsor will disappear if you log on as a member.
   
 
MKopack
PostPosted: May 08, 2007 - 08:24 PM Reply with quote Back to top
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran


Joined: Apr 08, 2004
Posts: 741

Status: Offline
dwightlooi wrote:
We don't know how "serious" the problem is. It may be something minor enough that the aircraft will fly just fine other than a a little warning light coming on in the cockpit saying that some circuit monitoring system is reading out of the normal range.


Absolutely, we're talking about a totally new type of aircraft, and a unique example with less than twenty total flights. I can imagine that under those conditions it wouldn't take much to call in an IFE (if that even happened) or call out the trucks on landing.

Realistically, what we're seeing here could have been the result of something as small as an anti-lock light with the emergency response for hot brakes (or the possibility of hot brakes) - something that we probably saw down at MacDill daily on our F-16A/B's.

Some people just don't understand that aircraft, especially high performance military aircraft aren't like having a car - even a sports car - in the driveway. When you read about how many hours of maintenance an aircraft requires per flight hour, it's based on fixing things, not keeping them pretty.

How much does anyone want to bet that with only about 20 flights the F-35 is already on a red diagional with a couple of 781A writeups?

Mike

_________________
F-16A/B/C/D P&W/GE Crew Chief and Phased Maint.
56TTW/63TFTS 1987-1989
401TFW/614TFS 1989-1991
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail  
 
dwightlooi
PostPosted: May 08, 2007 - 08:29 PM Reply with quote Back to top
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran


Joined: Aug 01, 2006
Posts: 958

Status: Offline
Also, the aircraft must have flown fine under its own power, lowered the gears and landed normally, as straight as an arrow. The only reason the pilot was pulled in the middle of the runway was probably because if you have an unknown warning light on a new machine it is good procedure to not leave a pilot in it.
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
idesof
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 01:32 AM Reply with quote Back to top
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran


Joined: May 29, 2006
Posts: 640

Status: Offline
dwightlooi wrote:
Also, the aircraft must have flown fine under its own power, lowered the gears and landed normally, as straight as an arrow. The only reason the pilot was pulled in the middle of the runway was probably because if you have an unknown warning light on a new machine it is good procedure to not leave a pilot in it.


Our friend Raptor_claw sure is being silent about the whole thing, and conspicuously so. Maybe the thing is fried. Then maybe we can cancel this whole misbegotten, ugly-as-all-holy-hell POS and get some far more attractive F-16s instead! Laughing
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
Ztex
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 05:00 AM Reply with quote Back to top
Enthusiast
Enthusiast


Joined: Dec 13, 2006
Posts: 51

Status: Offline
I saw this on another board today...looks funny to me. Any Ideas?


Source: http://www.fencecheck.com/forums/index. ... #msg140204



IMG_3997s.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  75.85 KB
 Viewed:  2207 Time(s)

IMG_3997s.jpg


 View user's profile Send private message  
 
idesof
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 05:15 AM Reply with quote Back to top
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran


Joined: May 29, 2006
Posts: 640

Status: Offline
Ztex wrote:
I saw this on another board today...looks funny to me. Any Ideas?
http://www.fencecheck.com/forums/index.php/topic,689.msg140204.html#msg140204


Excellent catch. In the pictures first posted in this thread, I in fact noticed that the flaps, and especially the tailplanes, were in an asymetric position. The picture--awesome, by the way--of it coming in to land tells the story: the flying surfaces are totally asymetric. Looks like the pilot may have had a major electrical/hydraulic issue on at least one side, which in the F-35 presents an interesting issue, since the actuators are at least partially electrical rather than hydraulic. From the looks of it, whomever the pilot was seems to have done quite a job of saving the plane.
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
idesof
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 05:19 AM Reply with quote Back to top
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran


Joined: May 29, 2006
Posts: 640

Status: Offline
idesof wrote:
Ztex wrote:
I saw this on another board today...looks funny to me. Any Ideas?
http://www.fencecheck.com/forums/index.php/topic,689.msg140204.html#msg140204


Excellent catch. In the pictures first posted in this thread, I in fact noticed that the flaps, and especially the tailplanes, were in an asymetric position. The picture--awesome, by the way--of it coming in to land tells the story: the flying surfaces are totally asymetric. Looks like the pilot may have had a major electrical/hydraulic issue on at least one side, which in the F-35 presents an interesting issue, since the actuators are at least partially electrical rather than hydraulic. From the looks of it, whomever the pilot was seems to have done quite a job of saving the plane.


By the way, the editors of this site should post a story ASAP and contact the major news organizations to report that the very $$$$$$ F-35 prototype suffered some sort of major failure. Will be picked up by all the major wire services such as AP and Reuters, and guaranteed to generate exposure to this site, such as, "The internet site F-16.net is reporting that the JSF prototype, part of the controversial $gazillion program, has suffered a major failure..." Let me know if you guys want to move on this because if you won't, I certainly will!
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
Raptor_claw
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 05:45 AM Reply with quote Back to top
Active Member
Active Member


Joined: Sep 29, 2006
Posts: 191

Status: Offline
idesof wrote:
Our friend Raptor_claw sure is being silent about the whole thing, and conspicuously so.


Ya know I have been feeling a little funny. I thought it was allergies - turns out I just had a case of 'conspicuous silence'.

What I'm not is the LM V.P. for Media Relations... Rolling Eyes I'm also not an idiot, so I will just remain silent Whistle (conspicuously or not) and enjoy the speculation.
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
parrothead
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 06:02 AM Reply with quote Back to top
Elite 3K
Elite 3K


Joined: May 10, 2004
Posts: 3035

Status: Offline
idesof wrote:
idesof wrote:
Ztex wrote:
I saw this on another board today...looks funny to me. Any Ideas?
http://www.fencecheck.com/forums/index.php/topic,689.msg140204.html#msg140204


Excellent catch. In the pictures first posted in this thread, I in fact noticed that the flaps, and especially the tailplanes, were in an asymetric position. The picture--awesome, by the way--of it coming in to land tells the story: the flying surfaces are totally asymetric. Looks like the pilot may have had a major electrical/hydraulic issue on at least one side, which in the F-35 presents an interesting issue, since the actuators are at least partially electrical rather than hydraulic. From the looks of it, whomever the pilot was seems to have done quite a job of saving the plane.


By the way, the editors of this site should post a story ASAP and contact the major news organizations to report that the very $$$$$$ F-35 prototype suffered some sort of major failure. Will be picked up by all the major wire services such as AP and Reuters, and guaranteed to generate exposure to this site, such as, "The internet site F-16.net is reporting that the JSF prototype, part of the controversial $gazillion program, has suffered a major failure..." Let me know if you guys want to move on this because if you won't, I certainly will!


Something tells me that the editors and moderators aren't nearly so crass, slanted, or alarmist as to do something like that Wink ...

_________________
No plane on Sunday, maybe be one come Monday...
www.parrotheadjeff.com
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
viper1234
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 06:14 AM Reply with quote Back to top
Enthusiast
Enthusiast


Joined: Dec 12, 2006
Posts: 56

Status: Offline
I feel a hostile renaming in the works... new callsign Chiknlittle Wink
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
parrothead
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 06:22 AM Reply with quote Back to top
Elite 3K
Elite 3K


Joined: May 10, 2004
Posts: 3035

Status: Offline
You wouldn't be suggesting a change of callsign, now would you Laughing ?

Chiknlittle - I like it LMAO !!!

_________________
No plane on Sunday, maybe be one come Monday...
www.parrotheadjeff.com
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
idesof
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 06:41 AM Reply with quote Back to top
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran


Joined: May 29, 2006
Posts: 640

Status: Offline
parrothead wrote:
idesof wrote:
By the way, the editors of this site should post a story ASAP and contact the major news organizations to report that the very $$$$$$ F-35 prototype suffered some sort of major failure. Will be picked up by all the major wire services such as AP and Reuters, and guaranteed to generate exposure to this site, such as, "The internet site F-16.net is reporting that the JSF prototype, part of the controversial $gazillion program, has suffered a major failure..." Let me know if you guys want to move on this because if you won't, I certainly will!


Something tells me that the editors and moderators aren't nearly so crass, slanted, or alarmist as to do something like that Wink ...


Not crass, slanted or alarmist, merely opportunistic. The media would be all over this, and it would bring exposure to the site. It is, in fact, a legitimate news story. Simply lay out the facts and let the chips fall where they may. Like it or not, this is the way journalism works. And in this case, the public certainly has a right to know. I think it would be both prudent and legitimate to do something with this story.
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
MKopack
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 10:53 AM Reply with quote Back to top
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran


Joined: Apr 08, 2004
Posts: 741

Status: Offline
idesof wrote:
Excellent catch. In the pictures first posted in this thread, I in fact noticed that the flaps, and especially the tailplanes, were in an asymetric position. The picture--awesome, by the way--of it coming in to land tells the story: the flying surfaces are totally asymetric. Looks like the pilot may have had a major electrical/hydraulic issue on at least one side, which in the F-35 presents an interesting issue, since the actuators are at least partially electrical rather than hydraulic. From the looks of it, whomever the pilot was seems to have done quite a job of saving the plane.


And that is obviously based on your deep knowledge of the flight control systems of the F-35 (or any other modern generation aircraft?)

Look at other F-35 photos, look at F-22 in flight photos, look at Typhoon photos, look at Rafale photos - modern flight controls DO move assymetrically - tailplanes and flaperons. Perhaps there was a problem, I don't know, I wasn't there, but it is a huge jump to make based on a couple of pictures which show a normal condition.

I hate to have to put it this way, because I've been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but Idesof, you're a moron. If ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest person in your own little dream world.

idesof wrote:
Like it or not, this is the way journalism works.

Well thank you for that little gem of knowledge. By the way, your editor from the Enquirer called and said that it's still not "yellow" enough for them, and that if you can add some aliens into the story it's on the cover.

Mike
Phantom Productions Aviation Photography and Media Services

_________________
F-16A/B/C/D P&W/GE Crew Chief and Phased Maint.
56TTW/63TFTS 1987-1989
401TFW/614TFS 1989-1991
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail  
 
checksixx
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 01:37 PM Reply with quote Back to top
Elite 1K
Elite 1K


Joined: Jul 20, 2005
Posts: 1034

Status: Offline
I'd bet since the initial report had to do with brakes that maybe he just got a hot break indication. It could have been a faulty warning light also. Most test programs dictate that the aircraft fly code-1 only. I wouldn't call this a major event by any means.
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
idesof
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 02:58 PM Reply with quote Back to top
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran


Joined: May 29, 2006
Posts: 640

Status: Offline
MKopack wrote:
idesof wrote:
Excellent catch. In the pictures first posted in this thread, I in fact noticed that the flaps, and especially the tailplanes, were in an asymetric position. The picture--awesome, by the way--of it coming in to land tells the story: the flying surfaces are totally asymetric. Looks like the pilot may have had a major electrical/hydraulic issue on at least one side, which in the F-35 presents an interesting issue, since the actuators are at least partially electrical rather than hydraulic. From the looks of it, whomever the pilot was seems to have done quite a job of saving the plane.


And that is obviously based on your deep knowledge of the flight control systems of the F-35 (or any other modern generation aircraft?)

Look at other F-35 photos, look at F-22 in flight photos, look at Typhoon photos, look at Rafale photos - modern flight controls DO move assymetrically - tailplanes and flaperons. Perhaps there was a problem, I don't know, I wasn't there, but it is a huge jump to make based on a couple of pictures which show a normal condition.

I hate to have to put it this way, because I've been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but Idesof, you're a moron. If ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest person in your own little dream world.

idesof wrote:
Like it or not, this is the way journalism works.

Well thank you for that little gem of knowledge. By the way, your editor from the Enquirer called and said that it's still not "yellow" enough for them, and that if you can add some aliens into the story it's on the cover.

Mike
Phantom Productions Aviation Photography and Media Services


Of course they move asymetrically. But do they stay in that condition once the airplane is on the ground? Notice that they remain in the same asymetric attitude in the pictures of the aircraft on the ground. Also, had it been a problem with the brakes running hot, why was the aircraft not doused, which would have been SOP if there was any concern of ignition?

As for being a moron, if it pleases you to think so. Guess who was the first to suggest that the F-22 had an issue with the International Date Line when it first tried to deploy to Okinawa? Guess who first said that Maj. Gilbert made a tragic mistake while strafing a ground target, which got him killed? Guess who was the only person on this board to forcefully call for Rumsfeld's resignation, much to the chagrin of those who cannot countenance opposition to what they like to term "patriotism"? Of course, I may not be popular for it, but I am not trying to win any popularity contests.

Bottom line is, if the F-35 prototype has had a major malfunction, as is apparently the case, the public has a right to know, and it will know. LM public relaions will be getting a few phone calls, and they will provide answers. So far the mainstream media hasn't touched this, because obviously it is oblivious. But no more. Time to contact the AP...
 View user's profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:     
Jump to:  
All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Copyright © 2008 Lieven Dewitte and Stefaan Vanhastel