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Document title: F-22 in Middle East since February!? - F-16.net - The Ultimate F-16 Reference
Original URL: http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-8065-view-previous-sid-06b556c4a922861dd338c581f0a086b0.html
Printed on: 18 November 2008

Forum: F-22A Raptor

F-22 in Middle East since February!?



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idesof
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 06:14 AM Reply with quote Back to top
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Picked up this article from spacewar.com, an invariably reliable news source. This is obviously a release from the military. The article claims "the F-22, a fifth-generation fighter jet, left Langley Air Force Base, Va., in February for its first real-world deployment to the Middle East". Does this constitute an inadvertent violation of OPSEC or is it a mistake on the author's part? The quotes by folks in the military would seem to indicate the information is not a mistake. So perhaps the Raptor is already in Iraq and/or Afghanistan after all...

Quote:
New Concept Gets Latest Technologies To Warfighters Quickly

by Donna Miles
American Forces Press Service
Edwards AFB CA (SPX) May 07, 2007

The F-22 Raptor and Global Hawk unmanned aerial vehicle had barely finished their maiden flights and begun serving in the war on terrorism when engineers, developers and testers here were already at work to improve on the capabilities of those aircraft.

That concept, referred to as "incremental development," is moving the latest technology to the field in support of warfighters as soon as it's ready while next-generation evolutions are being developed.

"Our goal is to create the very, very best weapons systems we can and, once we ensure that they are safe and reliable, to get them to operators as quickly as we can," said Col. Chris Cook, the commander of the 412th Operations Group.

Colonel Cook said the incremental development concept reminds him of a famous Army Gen. George S. Patton quote: "A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week."

"It puts capability into the warfighter hands as quickly as possible," Colonel Cook said. "It may not put the final solution in their hands, but it puts capability."

Two of the Air Force Flight Test Center's highest-visibility programs exemplify this effort.

When the F-22, a fifth-generation fighter jet, left Langley Air Force Base, Va., in February for its first real-world deployment to the Middle East, Lt. Col. Dan Daetz, the operations officer for the 411th Flight Test Squadron, said he was wowed by its power, maneuverability and stealth.

"This is a revolutionary airplane. It's a big leap from anything that we've ever had before," Colonel Daetz said. "But we're not finished with this airplane yet."

A chart in Colonel Daetz' office spells out four major incremental changes planned for the F-22 through 2014 that will make it more lethal and more precise in its targeting. Other advances on the avionics front will give crews unprecedented situational awareness.

"This plane is really in its infancy," Colonel Daetz said. "It will be around for decades and, to be honest, we probably haven't even thought yet about some of the capabilities it will eventually have."

Likewise for the Global Hawk, the unmanned aerial system provides wartime commanders unprecedented high-resolution, near-real-time intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance imagery.

"It's like an electronic vacuum cleaner," Colonel Cook said.

The next-generation Global Hawk, already being tested here, will feature a bigger payload, larger wingspan and new generator able to provide more electrical output, said Lt. Col. Andy Thurling, the commander of the 452nd Flight Test Squadron. Among other improvements planned past 2010 for the Global Hawk are an enhanced sensor package and signal intelligence capability and improved communications and data links.

While development testing continues, both the F-22 and Global Hawk are earning their stripes in the combat theater. Global Hawk has flown more than 2,200 combat hours and more than 100 missions in support of the war on terrorism.

By developing the new aircraft incrementally, developers said they're able to get the best new technologies to the field quickly to support the war on terrorism as they continue to improve them. Equally important, Colonel Cook said, is that it doesn't lock developers into systems that will be obsolete before they ever reach the field.

"It lets us take advantage of maturing technologies and emerging technologies as we develop the system," he said.

"If we have critical design review today and said, 'OK, that's it. The design is locked, and we are going to build it,' it's going to be outdated when it's fielded," he said. "If, for example, it takes 15 years to build (the system), the computers and displays in that system are going to be what's on your desk right now," he said. "And what you have on your desk right now is not going to be acceptable to you 15 years from now."

Developing systems incrementally also ensures they can be adapted as they are built to fit current and sometimes-changing warfighter requirements, he said.

"And so incremental development allows us to take advantage of those emerging technologies and the developing and evolving technologies as the timeline moves to the right," he said. "That way, we're able to fold and melt those capabilities into the system."
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elp
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 04:41 AM Reply with quote Back to top
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Original article was here on af.mil

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123051567

Thanks for finding that though, it was an interesting read. Smile

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SkunkWorksPlayboy
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 05:05 AM Reply with quote Back to top
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I wonder where they flew them to. Maybe they parked a few at an air base in Bahrain. How many would've gone?

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idesof
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 05:22 AM Reply with quote Back to top
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SkunkWorksPlayboy wrote:
I wonder where they flew them to. Maybe they parked a few at an air base in Bahrain. How many would've gone?


Not sure, but would seem like they would have been part of the 12 that flew, supposedly, to Okinawa. My guess perhaps half of the 12. The Okinawa deployment sure was a nice "cover story"! Wink
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SkunkWorksPlayboy
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 05:27 AM Reply with quote Back to top
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Yeah, because I thought I read that the Japan deployment was just temporary. It was to show how much we care about the region, Japan, Taiwan and South Korea. Not to mention give those guys a whiff of American stealth.

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PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 12:30 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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wow, just...wow

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maddog2840
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 01:23 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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Might have to switch my tagline.

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checksixx
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 01:24 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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It was a typo...it should have read Far East. There are no Raptor's in the Middle East.

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J.J.
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 01:45 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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The <a href="http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=33018">original version</a> of the news article "New Concept Ensures Latest Technologies Reach Warfighters Quickly" by By Donna Miles, American Forces Press Service, was relased for first time on DoDīs public main website and is dated May 1.

This version states:

Quote:
[...] When the Raptor, a fifth-generation fighter jet, left Langley Air Force Base, Va., in February for its first real-world deployment, to Japan, Air Force Lt. Col. Dan Daetz, operations officer for the 411th Flight Test Squadron, was wowed by its power, maneuverability and stealth. [...]


The <a href="http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123051567">USAF version</a>, dated May 2, was re-edited as follows:

Quote:
[...] When the F-22, a fifth-generation fighter jet, left Langley Air Force Base, Va., in February for its first real-world deployment to the Middle East, Lt. Col. Dan Daetz, the operations officer for the 411th Flight Test Squadron, said he was wowed by its power, maneuverability and stealth. [...]


That says it all! They just confused "Far East" (including Japan) with "Middle East" Laughing


For the "real world" facts see our F-22 Raptor news <a href="http://www.f-16.net/news_article2308.html">"Japanese pilots get taste of F-22As during Kadena training"</a>, adopted from "Stars and Stripes" (published May 1):

Quote:
[...] Tolliver [Lt. Col. Wade Tolliver, deployed 27th FS commander - J.J.] said he is unsure when his squadron's deployment to Okinawa will end.

"We're thinking it will be sometime in May," he said, adding he was in no hurry to leave Japan. "The diving's good, the food's good."

Then he got serious. The deployment to Okinawa is a long one for the unit.

"When you get that far from home and your support station you learn a lot," he said. The Raptors have flown some 580 sorties since arriving at Kadena.

"That's amazing for just 12 airplanes," he said. "There has been a lot of learning on this deployment." [...]


Also interesting is the news article <a href="http://www.pacaf.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123051393">"Air Force, JASDF forces train together"</a>, already posted in our topic <a href="http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-7449.html">F-22 begins deployment to Japan</a> (page 7).

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shorepoints
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 01:47 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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Correct....a typo. NO F-22s in the Middle East....the deployment was to Japan.

Here is the same story on DefenseLink: http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsart ... x?id=33018

Story on AFLink is in the process of being corrected.
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idesof
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 03:05 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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shorepoints wrote:
Correct....a typo. NO F-22s in the Middle East....the deployment was to Japan.

Here is the same story on DefenseLink: http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsart ... x?id=33018

Story on AFLink is in the process of being corrected.


That was quite a typo! Thanks for the clarification.

Now, I do hope they deploy the F-22 to the Middle East at some point. While I recognize that there are aircraft in theater that can do the job without the need for the Raptor, one of the principal criticisms of the Raptor is that it is basically useless in the fight against the Iraqi and Afghan insurgencies, and it is a weapon used against it in calls to defund the program in favor of additional troops, armored vehicles and such. The F-22 needs to make a contribution to this fight and pronto, for the sake of the program.
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checksixx
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 03:38 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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They will be scheduled into regular AEF rotations...its already planned. It certainly isn't useless over there...it can carry JDAM which is more than enough to do the job. Defunding the program will not produce more troops or armored vehicles for any service other than the Air Force, who specifically, is paying for the Raptor. If Congress killed the entire program, it would in a sense, flush tons of tax payers dollars down the toilet. Personally, I'd rather see more aircraft produced for a better investment of my tax dollars. We need the jet...lets get all that we need.
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J.J.
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 03:43 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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USAF corrected the typo. Smile

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idesof
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 03:49 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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checksixx wrote:
They will be scheduled into regular AEF rotations...its already planned. It certainly isn't useless over there...it can carry JDAM which is more than enough to do the job. Defunding the program will not produce more troops or armored vehicles for any service other than the Air Force, who specifically, is paying for the Raptor. If Congress killed the entire program, it would in a sense, flush tons of tax payers dollars down the toilet. Personally, I'd rather see more aircraft produced for a better investment of my tax dollars. We need the jet...lets get all that we need.


Couldn't agree more. But you know that so much of this is a matter of perception. So, in the interest of good PR for the jet, let's send it "over there" like yesterday and have it start killing bad guys. It may be a bit of overkill, but again, the more it can be seen as contributing to the wars we're fighting now--as opposed to the wars we may fight ten years from now--the more it will be perceived as being useful and relevant now.

Of course, the real justification for the Raptor is actually China, which worries me, and Russia, which in some ways worries me even more. The Russians have a serious inferiority complex, and Putin, an ex-KGB man and despot, has been sounding a less-than-friendly note toward the U.S. of late. I don't think Russia will ever be a genuine friend (especially not when the bastards are suplying nuclear technology to Iran). Russia is a natural enemy of the U.S. which is, for the time being, licking its wounds. But, rest assured, it has enormous oil and natural gas resources, and it will come back stronger than it was before. Before long, it will once again be a clear and present danger, and I would not want to be without at least 380+ Raptors when that happens (and a production line that's still warm enough to ramp up in case we need more).
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checksixx
PostPosted: May 09, 2007 - 03:52 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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This is a perfect example of how the board should go...myself and idesof have disagreed strongly in the past yet here, we agree on this. Of course I've tried to clean up my attitude since I first started coming to this site and it sure makes it more pleasant...take care, Check
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