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Elite Joined: Aug 14, 2003 Posts: 997 Status: Offline

Israel has approached the USA about acquiring Lockheed Martin F-22s as concern mounts about new threats to the country’s regional air superiority.

Sources say that the issue was raised during a one-day trip by US defence secretary Robert Gates to Israel last week.

Washington has so far not authorised the export of the Raptor stealth fighter, but sources in Israel say this is the first time a “reasonable” request has been made.

Among the subjects discussed with the country’s prime minister and defence minister were Israel’s concerns about the USA’s possible sale of advanced weaponry to Saudi Arabia and the Israeli intelligence assessment of the Iranian nuclear programme.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... rders.html

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Elite Joined: Aug 22, 2005 Posts: 957 Status: Offline

Hopefully someone tells them to "talk to the hand".

Veteran Joined: Aug 10, 2006 Posts: 342 Status: Offline

i dont see why we would, we always seem to give them our newest stuff, and in return they combat test it for us.

Amen to that Sferrin. We don't need to sell our best stuff to anyone. We're not selling to Japan so why should we sell to Israel? Japan has a way higher tech threat from regions like N. Korea, Russia, and China then Israel(holy crap the Saudi Arabians are throwing rocks!) Besides aren't they getting the F-35?

Elite Joined: Aug 20, 2005 Posts: 1028 Status: Offline

Israel isn't worried about Saudi Arabia, they're worried about Iran. Don't see it happening though.

Elite Joined: Aug 14, 2003 Posts: 997 Status: Offline

afnsucks wrote:

(holy crap the Saudi Arabians are throwing rocks!)

The last thing one should do is to despise and degrade his enemy. The Saudi Air force has F-15S (although this is a greatly "lightened" version it still may posses a threat under some circumstances), AH-64s, Tornados and in negotiations to order 72 Eurofighters or Rafales.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Saud ... ft_of_RSAF
http://www.scramble.nl/sa.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... f/rsaf.htm

Veteran Joined: Aug 23, 2006 Posts: 416 Status: Offline

I think it's a really bad idea to export the Raptor to anyone, but if we did then Japan and Australia should get it long before Israel ever does. They face much more sophisticated threats and they do not reverse engineer our stuff and then market competing products to friends and potential foes alike.

I don't know what version of Eurofighter SA is getting but I doubt it will be a match for Israeli modified F-15s and F-16s.

I don't even see the point of exporting the F-35 to them. If they really feel threatened they can go out and by Eurofighters with their own money.

Elite Joined: Aug 20, 2005 Posts: 1028 Status: Offline

Besides the fact that the Raptor is banned from FMS, I don't think they'll sell them to Israel after the fiasco with the Patriot Missile System.

Thumper3181 wrote:

I think it's a really bad idea to export the Raptor to anyone, but if we did then Japan and Australia should get it long before Israel ever does. They face much more sophisticated threats and they do not reverse engineer our stuff and then market competing products to friends and potential foes alike.

I don't know what version of Eurofighter SA is getting but I doubt it will be a match for Israeli modified F-15s and F-16s.

I don't even see the point of exporting the F-35 to them. If they really feel threatened they can go out and by Eurofighters with their own money.

1st, Israel didn't reverse engineer US stuff, but French. And the Sidewinder was reverse engineered by almost anyone who got their hands on it, not only Israel.

2nd, although Israel doesn't have high tech enemies, they are far more dangerous than Japan's and Australia'a enemies, as they are attacking Israel day after day. How often was Japan or Australia really attacked? See Israel in 1948 and 1973, just to name the biggest attacks they suffered.
3rd, Israel helped US to perfect their weapons by thoroughly testing it. The F-15 and F-16 was used in real action many years before their US conterparts.

4th, when - not if - Iran gets nukes, Israel won't be the only nation in danger. The first, probably, but certainly not the only one.

5th, US doesn't gives Israel weapons, they sell it. This means money entering the F-22 program, lowering the unit cost and allowing USAF to get some more Raptors for the same $$. So, the US should sell the Raptors not only to Israel, but for Japan and Australia too.

checksixx wrote:

Besides the fact that the Raptor is banned from FMS, I don't think they'll sell them to Israel after the fiasco with the Patriot Missile System.

Checksixx-

Can you clarify the Patriot Missle fiasco? I do not believe I heard about this, just awacs and fighter tech to CCP China. Thanks.

Well, it would be interesting seeing Israel to be in equal terms with an Eurofighter-eqquiped RSAF... Or maybe in losing terms with their aging F-15s? Devil

Elite Joined: Aug 20, 2005 Posts: 1028 Status: Offline

Orangeburst wrote:

Checksixx-
Can you clarify the Patriot Missle fiasco? I do not believe I heard about this, just awacs and fighter tech to CCP China. Thanks.

Sure...they got Patriots, they sold the Patriot technology.

Elite Joined: Aug 22, 2005 Posts: 957 Status: Offline

Orangeburst wrote:

checksixx wrote:

Besides the fact that the Raptor is banned from FMS, I don't think they'll sell them to Israel after the fiasco with the Patriot Missile System.

Checksixx-

Can you clarify the Patriot Missle fiasco? I do not believe I heard about this, just awacs and fighter tech to CCP China. Thanks.

Just Google "israel china patriot" and "israel china lavi" for all you need to know.

Elite Joined: Aug 14, 2003 Posts: 997 Status: Offline

checksixx wrote:

Sure...they got Patriots, they sold the Patriot technology.

I would love to see a reliable source stating this.

Veteran Joined: Aug 23, 2006 Posts: 416 Status: Offline

Quote:

5th, US doesn't gives Israel weapons, they sell it.

Total BS. To date Military aid (Outright Grants) to Israel total 51BILLION dollars. Military aid (again outright grants) to Israel in 2006 was projected to be 2.28 Billion.
Source http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... rael1.html
This does not count military loans and other aid. I don't necessarily think it is a bad investment but don't tell me that we "sell" to Israel.

Quote:

I would love to see a reliable source stating this.

"Only in early 1995 did the US government make public its concerns about Israel's Lavi-related technology re-exports to China. David Lari, director general of Israel's Ministry of Defense, acknowledged in an Associated Press interview that "some technology on aircraft" had been sold to China and that some Israeli companies may not have "clean hands". "

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/DL04Ad01.html

Quote:

Well, it would be interesting seeing Israel to be in equal terms with an Eurofighter-eqquiped RSAF... Or maybe in losing terms with their aging F-15s?

You are very much underestimating the Israeli F-15s and overestimating the Saudi urineflingers.

To add insult to injury missiles, radar and other products from Israeli companies now compete with those of the United States.

In France, Turkey, The Netherlands and Finland, Israeli companies have edged out U.S. firms of arms deals worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

The irony is that tens of billions of U.S. tax dollars and transfers of American military technology helped create and nurture Israel’s industry, in effect subsidizing a foreign competitor.

We would be nuts to export the F-22 to anyone especially Israel.

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Israel in talks with USA over F-22 orders