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Elite 2K Joined: Oct 20, 2005 Posts: 2103 Status: Offline

Please watch the current top ACC video clip <a href="http://www.acc.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-070413-039.wmv">F-22 pilots make use of special anti-G suits</a>. Is that really a "special" anti-G suite, exclusive for Raptor pilots?

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I think the Raptor pilots G-suits are supposed to take 3 G's off as opposed to one that a viper pilot wears which I think only takes 1 G off.

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 20, 2005 Posts: 1035 Status: Offline

Quoting Dozer over at the Fencecheck forums, "I think we're pretty happy with our current setup at this point, combat edge, slightly re-designed helmet and the ATAGS g suit. It's definitely not quite as hard to 'sustain' g in the Raptor as it was in the Eagle (from a physiological aspect)."

Additionally, there is nothing that takes off any G-forces. The suits only assist the pilot in coping with the G-forces.

Check

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 20, 2005 Posts: 1035 Status: Offline

From the web...excellent description...Check

*edit* PPB is Positive Pressure Breathing

Advanced Technology AGS (ATAGS) in the F-16 :

Development started in the Armstrong Laboratory in the 1970's and has evolved from the full coverage suit to what it is now called ATAGS. The ATAGS is an extended coverage anti-G suit with full pneumatic bladder coverage of the legs from the hip to the ankle and an abdominal bladder that is lower in height, by approximately 2 inch, at the top edge, when compared to the CSU-13B/P anti- G suit, and thus the ATAGS abdominal bladder is small in volume.

ATAGS is an enhanced coverage anti-G garment, which provides 90% below the waist coverage. It is the first significant improvement in anti-G garment since W.W.II. ATAGS is a full lower body coverage trouser, which may be worn with or without foot pressure socks. Recently, the ATAGS concept was shown to provide improved acceleration tolerance as measured by endurance type acceleration profiles. It works best in combination with PPB - yielding a 400% improvement in G tolerance. Alone, ATAGS has a 60% improvement over the standard G- suit. ATAGS is currently fielded, but its final development and production are anticipated in the future.

Quote:

Additionally, there is nothing that takes off any G-forces. The suits only assist the pilot in coping with the G-forces.

Right, that's not really what I meant by taking off of the G-forces but that is how a raptor pilot explained it to me I guess in a simple way where you can quickly see the comparison.

I wonder why they are not getting this http://www.autofluglibelle.com/html/libelle.html

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 20, 2005 Posts: 1035 Status: Offline

hansundfranz wrote:

I wonder why they are not getting this http://www.autofluglibelle.com/html/libelle.html

Quoting a reply from Dozer over at fencecheck: "I know a number of guys that tested the new liquid g suit, there were a few neutral comments on it and a lot of very negative comments. Its 180 degrees different from how we currently train ourselves to deal with g forces. I've heard guys say it might work on a new pilot who's never been trained in the "old" way, but lots of guys greyed or blacked out with it, I get the feeling it would be extremely dangerous for us to transition into it."

A more detailed description of the anti-G suite for Raptor:
http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/2004/articles/oct_04/fa22Support/index.html

Enthusiast Joined: Aug 07, 2006 Posts: 24 Status: Offline

cru wrote:

A more detailed description of the anti-G suite for Raptor:
http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/2004/articles/oct_04/fa22Support/index.html

ATAGS
Next Merrell dons the CSU-23/P Advanced Technology Anti-G Suit, or ATAGS. Like the Combat Edge vest, ATAGS (currently only worn by F/A-22 pilots) provides increased protection from the effects of prolonged high-g environments. As a stand-alone garment, ATAGS provides a sixty percent increase in aircrew endurance. Combined with Combat Edge, it increases aircrew endurance by 350 percent over the current g-suit.

Can anyone expound on how the AF came up with the 350% increase in endurance? Puzzled by this. Question

Enthusiast Joined: Aug 07, 2006 Posts: 24 Status: Offline

checksixx wrote:

hansundfranz wrote:

I wonder why they are not getting this http://www.autofluglibelle.com/html/libelle.html

Quoting a reply from Dozer over at fencecheck: "I know a number of guys that tested the new liquid g suit, there were a few neutral comments on it and a lot of very negative comments. Its 180 degrees different from how we currently train ourselves to deal with g forces. I've heard guys say it might work on a new pilot who's never been trained in the "old" way, but lots of guys greyed or blacked out with it, I get the feeling it would be extremely dangerous for us to transition into it."

Isn't this what the Typhoon pilots use? Anyway, one advantage of the liquid suit is that the pilot can supposedly drink the fluid in an emergency situation. Beer, anyone? Laughing

The Luftwaffe uses them, Not sure about the other Nations flying the Typhoon

Typhoon pilots do have such a suit. Its suposed to provide 9G long endurance. It remains to be seen how much time it will take untill the rest of the pilots have such a treat.

The liquid suite (libelle) is (or will be) used only on Luftwaffe EFs. The UK pilots use the same suite as the Raptor pilots (Combat Edge + ATAGS). It's made in UK by ML Lifeguard, a company from UK. Also the Finish pilots use them on Hornets. Some details here: http://www.sci.fi/~fta/physiolo.htm

Also, after a brief search on Google, it results that the Swedish Grippen use something almost similar. A good description: http://www.militartekniska.se/mtt/include/archive/200103/MTT301_combatsuit.pdf

Slightly off topic. The Raptor was originally proposed with a reclining seat. Yeah, just like your car. Full upright for landings, take offs, taxing and such. Reclined for maneuvering like the Viper. It was manual and automatic with sensors adjusting the seat as the G's come on and off.

Was rejected because concern for reaching for controls and switches was complicated. As the seat moved so did the switch positions (sic) and test subjects had to keep looking down to make sure they had the right switch or control.

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Special anti-G suits for Raptor pilots?