| Author |
Message |
|
idesof
|
 Posted: May 01, 2007 - 06:06 AM
|
 
|
|
Forum Veteran
Joined: May 29, 2006
Posts: 640
Status: Offline
|
|
checksixx wrote:
I'll post everything I can in a couple of days. My wife had to drag me to the show as I've been very sick for the past week and continue to be now. I'll post more when I can...Check
Here's hoping you have a speedy recovery.
As for the demo on Sunday, it would be greatly appreciated if anyone who has a link for any and all video to post it here. Chomping at the bit to check out Mooga's moves that day! |
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Sponsor
|
 Posted: Oct 13, 2008 - 12:54 AM
|
|
|
F-16.net Sponsor
|
This message from our sponsor will disappear if you log on as a member. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
checksixx
|
|
Posted: May 01, 2007 - 01:22 PM
|
|
|
Elite 1K
Joined: Jul 20, 2005
Posts: 1034
Status: Offline
|
|
|
|
|
|
checksixx
|
|
Posted: May 01, 2007 - 01:24 PM
|
|
|
Elite 1K
Joined: Jul 20, 2005
Posts: 1034
Status: Offline
|
| J.J.--I'll get the numbers of the jets for you. Also, yes there was a back-up demo bird although I don't believe he had any problems with the primary for the day. More to come...Check |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
idesof
|
|
Posted: May 02, 2007 - 04:14 AM
|
|
|
Forum Veteran
Joined: May 29, 2006
Posts: 640
Status: Offline
|
|
checksixx wrote:
Thanks idesof! Here is Friday's demo in which the full demonstration was performed. Check
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAp5EVjucEs
 Awesome, simply awesome! Hopefully that video will satisfy JJ. If that isn't "something special" I don't know what is. From the moment of the ridiculously short take-off roll on, I was astounded by the agility, control and power of this aircraft. I would LOVE to see the Eurofighter try to match this display.  And it is supremely gratifying to know that while the Russians were busy trying to wow airshow crowds with specially-modified, outdated designs, the U.S. simply went about its business and built an actual combat aircraft, in service today, that is leaps and bounds ahead of anything else out there right now.
Of note is how quickly the weapons bays open and close. I remember someone here suggesting that they try to make the inside of the bays stealthy as well, just in case. Well, I don't think we have to worry about that "just in case" scenario. 
Thank you, Check, for posting that link. You ought to be justifiably proud of the work you guys are doing at Langley!    |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Raptor_claw
|
|
Posted: May 02, 2007 - 06:03 AM
|
|
|
Active Member
Joined: Sep 29, 2006
Posts: 191
Status: Offline
|
|
Lightndattic wrote:
idesof wrote:
And here's another, from a fellow over at Fencecheck. Toward the beginning and end of the video, the Raptor demonstrates yaw control authority I have never seen any other fighter approach. How the pilot does it, I haven't a clue, since the Raptor can only vector its thrust in the pitch axis...
I noticed that too. The only thing I can think of that would allow a 2D TV aircraft to do that is differential throttle control- to yaw right, but right engine at Mil power, left engine at zone 5 AB, and you'll yaw right. If that's how he's doing it, it shows a high level of skill to keep it looking so smooth. I know I'd be afraid of jacking with the throttles when I'm essentially falling straight down with no forward airspeed.
At those AOA's the rudders are completely blanked and are worthless, but the horizontal tails (deflected differentially) produce enough yaw control to allow these 'helicopter' turns. The airspeed during these turns is typically in the 70-90 knots range, enough to allow the tails to work. Obviously, at extremely low airspeeds (less than about 40) differential throttle is the only option, and it does have some limited usefulness.
As to
Quote:
How the pilot does it
he (or she) just pushes on a rudder pedal. The flight control laws do all the hard work
If you look closely at the horizontals in this video, right around 9:29-9:43 (try freezing right about 9:42-9:43), you can see the differential deflections.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAp5EVjucEs |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Neno
|
|
Posted: May 02, 2007 - 07:22 AM
|
|
|
Active Member
Joined: Sep 29, 2006
Posts: 119
Status: Offline
|
| At this point i think the 3d nozzles are useless .. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Neno
|
|
Posted: May 02, 2007 - 10:57 AM
|
|
|
Active Member
Joined: Sep 29, 2006
Posts: 119
Status: Offline
|
|
idesof wrote:
From the moment of the ridiculously short take-off roll on, I was astounded by the agility, control and power of this aircraft.
take-off seems too short that i suspect it could be done even from a carrier (of course i don't think at the air show it was fully loaded of fuel and weapons) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
checksixx
|
|
Posted: May 02, 2007 - 01:44 PM
|
|
|
Elite 1K
Joined: Jul 20, 2005
Posts: 1034
Status: Offline
|
|
Neno wrote:
take-off seems too short that i suspect it could be done even from a carrier (of course i don't think at the air show it was fully loaded of fuel and weapons)
Fully fueled just minus the weapons...which you should have noticed in the video. 1000' take-off. Add in the weapons you might add another 100-200' but thats about it. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lightndattic
|
|
Posted: May 02, 2007 - 02:49 PM
|
|
|
Active Member
Joined: Oct 06, 2005
Posts: 212
Status: Offline
|
|
checksixx wrote:
Neno wrote:
take-off seems too short that i suspect it could be done even from a carrier (of course i don't think at the air show it was fully loaded of fuel and weapons)
Fully fueled just minus the weapons...which you should have noticed in the video. 1000' take-off. Add in the weapons you might add another 100-200' but thats about it.
Which would be countered by a carrier giving a 30kt headwind, you could potentially Doolittle a squadron of F-22's.
Not that it'll ever happen. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Marcelo
|
|
Posted: May 02, 2007 - 05:30 PM
|
|
|
Newbie
Joined: Aug 29, 2003
Posts: 11
Status: Offline
|
| About the F-22 demo video: I think it was pretty good, but not impressive if compared to Su-30MKI or MiG-29OVT demos. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
J.J.
|
|
Posted: May 02, 2007 - 08:42 PM
|
|
|
Elite 2K
Joined: Oct 20, 2005
Posts: 2097
Status: Offline
|
|
checksixx wrote:
Thanks idesof! Here is Friday's demo in which the full demonstration was performed. Check
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAp5EVjucEs
Sorry, checksixx! But so I think, you really mean Sunday´s demo, also related to the better weather in the video clip. And on April 30, yourself already posted "... Sunday he flew the full show and he did open the bays ..." (opened weapon bays are clearly visible and also especially commented by an airshow moderator in this awesome 13:47 clip with full "sound track"). I´m right, checksixx?
idesof wrote:
Awesome, simply awesome! Hopefully that video will satisfy JJ. If that isn't "something special" I don't know what is. From the moment of the ridiculously short take-off roll on, I was astounded by the agility, control and power of this aircraft. [...]
Yeah, idesof! Sunday´s demo was really great, and I´m "satisfied".
Special thanks to Raptor_claw for his very instructive reply:
Raptor_claw wrote:
Lightndattic wrote:
idesof wrote:
And here's another, from a fellow over at Fencecheck. Toward the beginning and end of the video, the Raptor demonstrates yaw control authority I have never seen any other fighter approach. How the pilot does it, I haven't a clue, since the Raptor can only vector its thrust in the pitch axis...
I noticed that too. The only thing I can think of that would allow a 2D TV aircraft to do that is differential throttle control- to yaw right, but right engine at Mil power, left engine at zone 5 AB, and you'll yaw right. If that's how he's doing it, it shows a high level of skill to keep it looking so smooth. I know I'd be afraid of jacking with the throttles when I'm essentially falling straight down with no forward airspeed.
At those AOA's the rudders are completely blanked and are worthless, but the horizontal tails (deflected differentially) produce enough yaw control to allow these 'helicopter' turns. The airspeed during these turns is typically in the 70-90 knots range, enough to allow the tails to work. Obviously, at extremely low airspeeds (less than about 40) differential throttle is the only option, and it does have some limited usefulness.
As to
Quote:
How the pilot does it
he (or she) just pushes on a rudder pedal. The flight control laws do all the hard work
If you look closely at the horizontals in this video, right around 9:29-9:43 (try freezing right about 9:42-9:43), you can see the differential deflections.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAp5EVjucEs
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
checksixx
|
|
Posted: May 03, 2007 - 01:12 AM
|
|
|
Elite 1K
Joined: Jul 20, 2005
Posts: 1034
Status: Offline
|
|
J.J. wrote:
checksixx wrote:
Thanks idesof! Here is Friday's demo in which the full demonstration was performed. Check
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAp5EVjucEs
Sorry, checksixx! But so I think, you really mean Sunday´s demo, also related to the better weather in the video clip. And on April 30, yourself already posted "... Sunday he flew the full show and he did open the bays ..." (opened weapon bays are clearly visible and also especially commented by an airshow moderator in this awesome 13:47 clip with full "sound track"). I´m right, checksixx?
No, that video link I posted was to Friday's demo as I stated. The weather in the clip had thunderstorms moving into the area and was filmed Friday evening. He opened the bays only during the full demo's on Friday and Sunday....Check |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
checksixx
|
|
Posted: May 03, 2007 - 02:40 AM
|
|
|
Elite 1K
Joined: Jul 20, 2005
Posts: 1034
Status: Offline
|
|
|
|
|
|
Raptor_claw
|
|
Posted: May 03, 2007 - 04:18 AM
|
|
|
Active Member
Joined: Sep 29, 2006
Posts: 191
Status: Offline
|
|
Marcelo wrote:
About the F-22 demo video: I think it was pretty good, but not impressive if compared to Su-30MKI or MiG-29OVT demos.
That's just it, those are 'demos' and nothing more. The Russian airshows are impressive (I especially enjoy the ejection seat demonstrations we have seen through the years), but you cannot ignore the fact that they are in modified aircraft with specially trained pilots - not at all representative of what the operational aircraft and pilots can do.
By contrast the F-22 show consists of a true production aircraft doing maneuvers that any F-22 Joe-Bag-o-Donuts pilot can do after only a few flights in the jet (although usually not quite so close to the ground).
Having said that, we shouldn't forget that this demonstration is still in development and has a way to go. At least one key element (the Cobra) was not done last weekend, but will be added eventually. There are at least a couple other 'pretty cool' moves that I would expect to see added in the future.
So, while such comparisons are mostly pointless anyway, at this stage of the game they are truly, totally pointless. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
cru
|
|
Posted: May 03, 2007 - 06:17 AM
|
|
|
Active Member
Joined: Dec 17, 2004
Posts: 217
Status: Offline
|
|
Quote:
take-off seems too short that i suspect it could be done even from a carrier (of course i don't think at the air show it was fully loaded of fuel and weapons)
In the LockheedMartin corporate magazine (http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/2004/articles/aug_04/fa22/index.html)is a remark from one pilot:
Quote:
But even in the pre-stall environment and at full combat weight, we enjoy exceptional maneuverability and thrust-to-weight ratios. We takeoff in afterburner, and we are airborne in about 800 feet. If we don't pull the nose up quickly to slow the airplane down, we can be flying supersonic during climb-out.
800 feet is more than enough. A Nimitz class carrier has a deck 1092 feet long. So no problem for take off, even witout catapult, with full weapons and fuel load. I wont' bet about landing, although this could be possible too.
Quote:
The Russian airshows are impressive (I especially enjoy the ejection seat demonstrations we have seen through the years),
Indeed, over the years, the k 36 proved itself during various airshows  ... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Search
Register
Log in to check your private messages
Forum Guidelines
