Forum: F-16 Design & Construction

The former Pakistani block 15 vipers now used by the NSAWC were made by the ultimate block 15 standard; the OCU. However I've never seen any pictures of these OCU cockpits as they have the wide angle HUD etc. So can someone take some pictures of the cockpits these Vipers? Or does someone have some cockpit shots of these Vipers?
TIA
Dick

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Patience grasshoppa....got a friend of mine that just made a base visit. I'll see what he got. Wink

Unless things have changed since 1999 (when I left the program), all Block 15 OCUs I ever saw had the original narrow FOV A-model HUD. The only exception I can think of would be the pre-MLU Portugese ADFs, which had the C-model WAC HUD but kept the original Block 15 cockpit arrangement. That of course has changed since the PoAF bought the MLU conversion kits.

In fact most new build block 15 OCU had wide angled HUDs. This means Thailand, Singapore, Indonesia and Portugal have them. The first batch of Portugese block 15's are not ADF but OCU's They have the ADF tail root however. In fact they are new build block 15 OCU's with older engines. The second batch were second hand block 15's and they are now being modified to MLU. THe first badge has the F-16C wide angle HUD.

In fact all the new build block 15 OCU's from the NATO countries like Netherlands, Norway, Belgium and Denmark have the smaller usual block 15 HUDs.

So I've never seen a picture of a block 15 OCU with a wide angle HUD. And thats I'm after at.

Dick

Your point is well presented, however the Pakistani Vipers were sitting in storage for years (and are therefore not new-built jets) before being given to the Navy. Hence my assertion that they still have the older HUDs. If the Navy upgraded to the WAC HUDs during the pre-delivery refurb then I'm wasn't aware of it.

faassen, I think you are under the impression that the wide angle HUD looks different from the early standard HUD when the only difference is in the internal optics. From the information I have a WAC HUD is not physically larger or different than the earlier model. The only HUD that really looks different is the WAR HUD.

Also the Pakistani jets were never in service, they basically went straight from the factory to AMARC, so they'd sill be 'new-build'.

When you study the available pictures carefully of the NSAWC Vipers you can clearly see that the panel just under the HUD is as an F-16C! This means the HUD system is somewhat different. Please notice also the camera which is in front of the HUD and in older block 15 version its behind theHUD. Also the HUD is somewhat larger and of different shape. Believe me you have a block 15 panel with an F-16C HUD! And that is the F-16 block 15 OCU!

The Pakistani destinated Vipers were back in 1992 new build! And they were build according to the latest block 15 OCU standard then.

Only a picture of the front panel will prove me right!

Dick

Got a link to these "available pictures" you mentioned?

In accordance to Air Combat Vol. 5 No. 5, March 2004, an article called "Top Gun Vipers" states that the Pakistan Air Force ordered the F-16C wide-angle HUD for their aircraft. Photo's show what appear to be a wide-angle HUD, though none of the photo's are good cockpit close-ups.

According to the documentation I have from GD, the WAC HUD was part of the OCU suite. This was also the standard FMS configuration at the time the PAF/NSAWC birds were built.

I have compared 20+ photos of HUDs from Blocks 01/05/10/15/25/30 and I cannot identify any physical differences in the HUD glass or frame between the early HUD and the later WAC HUD.

Yes the HUD camera moved but the camera is not part of the HUD.

The panel on the front face of the HUD is not part of the HUD. In early Blocks this was the HCP - HUD Control Panel. I found pics of two different styles of HCPs. When the UFC (Up Front Controls) were introduced the HCP was moved to a side console and replaced with the ICP (Integrated Control Panel). The UFC is comprised of the ICP and DED.

Based on this information, I don't think you can tell an early HUD from the later WAC HUD based on the HUD glass or frame. The presence of an HCP or ICP/DED may be a clue but may not be definitive.

habu2 wrote:

I have compared 20+ photos of HUDs from Blocks 01/05/10/15/25/30 and I cannot identify any physical differences in the HUD glass or frame between the early HUD and the later WAC HUD.

Don't want to squirt any more JP8 on this fire but the glass dimensions between the Block 10 and Blocks 15 and higher (WAR HUD excluded) were most definately different. The sim shop at Tucson I worked at had a mix of Blocks 10, 15, 25, and 42. All the sims used actual HUDs from the jet. The Block 10 had a very narrow combiner glass (about the width of your hand) and I had a tough time seeing all the projected symbology without moving my head around. And the fact the HUD video camera was between you and the glass was no help either. We had a veteran Dutch instructor there in the early 90's that flew early Block 5s and 10s and he said that on approach he had to lean forward to see the HUD approach symbology because, due to the glass size and the way the display "floats with the Velocity Vector, it was displayed well below the normal eyeline. But I digress.

The Block 15 HUD glass was slightly larger but still had a small projected image.

The Block 25's glass and projected display was substantially bigger. I could sit in the eyepoint of the seat and see all the data easily by just moving my eyes around.

From a distance I'll agree that it's hard to tell what version is what. You almost have to be in the cockpit to be absolutely sure. And I also agree with the assertion that the optics and control mechanism can be different. Just 'cause you have a UFC doesn't mean you have a WAC HUD, although that's generally the case 99% of the time. But if the UFC keypad is not part of the HUD, why then does it come installed on new HUD display units? Whenever we had to replace the DU, it was removed as one assembly and the new one always came with the keypad installed. Although I've never seen one, could there have been a WAC DU with an analog HCP under a different part number?

When I compared photos I couldn't see any difference but of course that doesn't mean there isn't any. The HUD frame certainly looked the same but the glass dimensions might have been different. Like you said, without sitting behind one its hard to tell.

As for the ICP being part of the HUD, the two probably share a common electrical connector at the back of the HUD, and the four thumbwheels on the ICP do control HUD symbology brightness etc. Given those control functions maybe an ICP is a good indication of a WAC HUD.

Never say Never, and I mean Never. Laughing

Nice discussion we have here but still I have to see the proof of everything by seing a picture. Or maybe I'm too hasty???
Dick

Can anyone out there provide the actual dimensions of the different HUD's? I agree with H2 that it is difficult to tell the sizes from photos.

Forum: F-16 Design & Construction

NSAWC F-16A/B HUD type ?