F-16.net

Enthusiast Joined: Sep 23, 2006 Posts: 20 Status: Offline

It's a long time ago, not sure if I call the things by the right names anymore, but it still nags me.

I recovered a block 15 and when about to put the EPU safety pin in I glanced at the EPU indicator and saw it trip..and flip back to normal. I was struck with disbelief, and froze for a moment, I grabbed the other crewchief who was on comms with the pilot and tried above the engine noise to explain what i just saw. I then decided to call a hydazine alarm, and the whole circus got into motion. Hydrazine crew, diversion of other planes, comin back from the mission. Nothing was found and I got grilled for making the false alarm, as the indicator was said not to be able to behave the way i saw it. I felt really bad about the whole thing, but to this day I'm sure as to what I saw..I saw it trip and flip back to normal..

Would there be anyone here with a similar experience?

F-16.net Sponsor

This message from our sponsor will disappear if you log on as a member.

I would say that the indicator was bad, I know they can activate without the EPU firing. I have never seen that before though. Under normal circumstances it should not reset by itself. You did the right thing though calling for an EPU response.

It's possible. The indicators would 'trip' on our Blk 10's fairly regularly (without the EPU's being fired) and we got pretty good at resetting them with a quick 'THWACK" on the panel with your hand.

Either way I'd rather have called out the chem team to inspect the jet than to have it sitting there contaminated.

I'll never forget the sound of an EPU firing though. I was only about 20' away, in the marshalling position at EOR when it went off - almost 20 years ago, but I can still hear it like it happened today.

Mike

I have never seen one flip back but I’m not saying it’s impossible. I have seen indicators faded by the sun where you had to double check … depends on the light from the sun.

Bottom line is a flipped indicator is no need to panic (hard landing maybe) the pilot would have known if the EPU fired? And he would have never brought the jet back to the spot (well maybe)

You can also tell the EPU fired by residue around the exhaust, normally sniff checked by fuels prior to rendering the jet safe, before you see that but not a hazard

However, when the leak detector pellet is dark, we have a problem

I misread your question, I guess my heart rate would increase if I saw it flip prior to installing the pin, however if the EPU didn’t fire, no worries

I don't remember the sound, but I can still see it happen. Was at EOR standing above the right main getting ready to pull the chocks. Pilot mistook the power switch for the ECM pod switch and shut the power off. Can still see the smoke shoot out the exhaust and that oh so pleasant smell.

cutlassracer wrote:

I don't remember the sound, but I can still see it happen. Was at EOR standing above the right main getting ready to pull the chocks. Pilot mistook the power switch for the ECM pod switch and shut the power off. Can still see the smoke shoot out the exhaust and that oh so pleasant smell.

You need to be so careful when you pull the pin, and hand it over to the right side for stowage … It seems as soon as you show the pilot the pin, and he acknowledges the pin is removed, he is putting the EPU to NORM. This is about the same time people walk under the exhaust and pass the pin. Not smart.

This is all complacency and amplified when the jet is 370’ed UP (No where to go)

I would hate for my back or neck being a blast shield for H-70 coming out of that exhaust

Enthusiast Joined: Jan 28, 2006 Posts: 48

Would you have to do a mono check if this happened?

Enthusiast Joined: Sep 23, 2006 Posts: 20 Status: Offline

Guys, You can't believe how good your replies make me feel , even if this is now almost 20 years ago Smile

Skybert

To Error on the Safe side is better then to ignore something which could be bad. You did the right thing, even if others had a little headache. That's what they are there for. And I would rather have someone call it out because of what you saw. I don't like how a lot of people are afraid to make calls because they think their flight chief is going to grill them, or get crap from the other guys. If its broke, or if there is something that just doesn't
seem right" call it, and get it checked. Skybert, I don't see why someone would get angry, other then they had to do a little extra work, and for some reason it seems like more and more people would ignore work then do something about it. And then they get angry when they get called on it.

Late!

Dont you hate that when people grill you for doing your job? I remember I had problems with my canopy(canopy went up and down REALLY &%$*ing slow like I'm talking an old turtle with only two legs slow) but I was told not to do or say anything about it from of all people my expeditors because in doing so would affect our FMC rate and we would wait till it went to depot to have it fixed which BTW was over three months away. I found a loop hole around it and whenever a pilot would come back they would ask me about the canopy and I would tell the story and asked them to write it up in the forms (BTW it was a motor problem but the pilots seemed pretty concerned about it if they had to eject why I dont know but whatever) course they(the expeditors) would just have someone do a CND on it. But finally after having one of the higher ranking IPs ask about it again I let him know what the deal was. The same day it was towed to the hanger and spent close to the rest of the week on the ground. Kinda sucks when your higher ups care more about stats then safety(even the pro sups knew from what I heard) but I guess I'll understand one day.

Enthusiast Joined: Apr 20, 2005 Posts: 66

I had Block 15 jets coming back and the indicator triped, espessialy if the pilot had done a cupple og T/G's and/or a hevy landing and/or after a BFM flight.

But this one time we recoverd a jet (I think it was "659", but not sure) and just as I was about to insert the pin and the pilot shut the engine down and the EPU went off about 4 ft from my face.. That sound.. can still remember it and this was 13 years ago. The pilot was blamed for the incedent as he did't wait for our signal to cut off.

Never saw that but I did see a disc go black for no particular reason. Taking over an engine install I did the -10 and got to work. After a couple of hours (?) had someone go to the tool room for something. As he was leaving he noticed the disc was black.

Turned out that the crew chief had changed it while we were working and ALL the discs in bench stock were black.

Has anyone seen this?

Senior member Joined: Dec 14, 2006 Posts: 472

Skybert wrote:

It's a long time ago, not sure if I call the things by the right names anymore, but it still nags me.

I recovered a block 15 and when about to put the EPU safety pin in I glanced at the EPU indicator and saw it trip..and flip back to normal. I was struck with disbelief, and froze for a moment, I grabbed the other crewchief who was on comms with the pilot and tried above the engine noise to explain what i just saw. I then decided to call a hydazine alarm, and the whole circus got into motion. Hydrazine crew, diversion of other planes, comin back from the mission. Nothing was found and I got grilled for making the false alarm, as the indicator was said not to be able to behave the way i saw it. I felt really bad about the whole thing, but to this day I'm sure as to what I saw..I saw it trip and flip back to normal..

Would there be anyone here with a similar experience?

If I was one of your friends or if I was working with you I might have razed you little bit about it, jokingly.

However in my opinion you did what was right. If I was in your shoes I would probably done the same thing.

Rescue crews have a saying: When in doubt, call them out.

Most emergencies can be better handled the sooner the rescue crews are alerted, so is usually best to err on the side of safety, if there seems to be a hazardous situation to sound an alarm.

It is not like you deliberately turned in a false alarm or were paranoid. I think people that deliberately turn in false alarms should be disciplined severely. Paranoid people should get better educated or and professional psychological help.

If you had a justified reason for sounding a false alarm, big deal. You had good intentions and it sounds like you had probable cause. Even the rescue crews say that they would rather have the practice of a false alarm, then to be alerted after an emergency has escalated.

Rescue crews say that they would rather get called out on a warning gear light, warning fire light, then wait till after a plane crashes or catches on fire for the alarm to be sound. They say what ticks off the rescue crews the more is to be called to an accident after it already happened and to find out that the crew had known there was a possible emergency developing, they just did not bother to declare one, in fear of reporting a false alarm.

If you waited until you were absolutely positive that there was an emergency, it might have been too late for you to sound an alarm.

You had probable cause to sound an alarm.

Anyway it sounds like the indicator may be the root of the false alarm, not you.

At least that is my opinion.

WOW, that was a lot of words that all meant the same thing.

F-16.net

Forum: F-16 Procedures

Could a EPU trip indicator flip back?