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I have a question for some of you experts regarding the maneuverability of the Raptor. I have heard stories saying that the thrust-vectoring makes the F-22 the most agile fighter in the world. I have also heard that it can't even outperform some modern fighters like the Viper in a close-in dogfight.

What have you all heard, and how would it perform against the Su-27, Su-35, Rafale, Eurofighter, Gripen, etc.?

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Salute

Local yokels flying the Raptor at Tyndall say it is indeed better in a knife fight than the Viper. Trying to talk with a troop or two now checking out in the beast.

Remember that flight control system 'laws' are way different than the F-16.

Stay tuned.

out,

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2862

Lets hope if the jet is used in harms way, it is never used in close. It's best ability is to:

-Position itself because of great situational awareness using great fuel economy at high speed / high altitude, so as to launch an attack at maximum advantage to its own team. Many times getting off BVR shots without being detected, let alone even being locked up. It can manuver, but unless it is a super-important-has-to-be-killed-immediately situation..... why whould anyone use such a platform where the enemy can also detect and take a shot at you too? ( WVR ) It is the same as the new air to ground weapons we have vs. small SAMs and AAA: "I can touch you, but you can't touch me"... and in the F-22's case add: "you can't detect me before it is too late.... if ever." In the first night of an important air op, the enemy, using legacy technology ( anything EF2000/Rafale and below ) has to come up or watch a lot of ground targets die. No choice. Except that they will come up, die, and those same ground targets will die anyway.

Let the enemy use the old rule book and die.

Yeah but somebody is going to make a NEW rule book that includes Air to Air drones, that are Small, stealthy, cheap and pull 20+G's. and will fly rings around any manned aircraft.

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2862

Well, when I take over Surprised

It will be F-22, A-45 UCAV, and legacy F-16s. Just have to work out the first part of my plan.... Twisted Evil

SwedgeII wrote:

Quote:

Air to Air drones, that are Small, stealthy, cheap and pull 20+G's. and will fly rings around any manned aircraft.

Well, if your drone is stealthy so that the enemy can't detect it, and smaller than most of manned fighter aircraft, I wonder if the ability to pull more than 20G is really useful. Moreover, it would probably increase the cost of the drone much.
If we want drones to really act as "force multipliers", I think we have to make them as simple and as cheap as possible.
The most challenging thing about UCAVs, perhaps, is not technology, but succeeding in finding a new way to think about aerial warfare, without usual prejudices.

Enthusiast Joined: Feb 26, 2004 Posts: 23 Status: Offline

If the X-31 prototype were sucessfull. It will certainly be the most maneuverable aircraft in the world, much more agile than F-22, rafale, typhoon, su-35.

Wondering when will they start production of X-31 Very Happy

X-31 was very successful for the purpose it was designed - as an experimental aircraft. The X-31 was never destined for production but tested many technologies destined for other production aircraft.

IMO the US muddied up the whole naming convention affair when they designated the JSF prototypes as "X-planes"... and then followed that up with calling the production version of the X-35 the F-35. Evil or Very Mad

I've never understood myself why they didn't call it F-24. It is very unclear to me...

The F-35 is the first American fighter originated from the project of X-plane directly. Since its code is "X-35" during the X-plane stage, it should be reasonable and convenient to call it "F-35" during the fighter stage.

Only if it had been called XF-35 would it have made sense. I think someone in leadership made the same (mistaken) assumption you did at the award announcement press conference and DOD backed him up. It was quite frankly an aberration of the nomenclature process. That said, given the few number iof aircraft being developed these days, it really isn't a big deal...

I think it was posted someplace else on this site that someone either observed or knew someone that observed the Raptor doing backflips while maintaining forward momentum. That should give you a good idea about how manuverable it is Devil

True story Sniper69, with vectored thrust and nose-up stabilators, this is highly possible, remember the nozzles pitch up 20 degrees and can vary through-out the maneuver and so can the horizontal stabs, I will be looking for this at the next airshow soon near me, in-fact I can figure it out mathematically. Will keep you posted sniper69. AP

There is a video floating around on the net of it doing it. I saw it, don't remember where but it did not appear to be doctored at all.

How agile would the F-22 be if it didn't have the thrust-vectoring nozzels? Surely not as agile as the Viper right?

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